Your Seat at the Table - Real Conversations on Leadership and Growth
Join hosts Mike Maddock and John Tobin as they delve into authentic stories of leadership, decision-making under pressure, and the invaluable lessons learned along the way. Each episode offers candid conversations with seasoned leaders, exploring the challenges faced, the triumphs celebrated, and the insights gained from real-world experiences. Whether you’re an aspiring leader or a seasoned executive, pull up a chair and find your seat at the table.
Your Seat at the Table - Real Conversations on Leadership and Growth
What's the Worst That Could Happen? Building a Billion Dollar Company with Troy Johnson
Troy Johnson, co-founder of Slalom Consulting, shares the power of gratitude and how simple moments of appreciation can transform our outlook in both work and life. From his beginnings in Iowa to building a global consulting powerhouse, Troy reveals how authentic connection with people has been the cornerstone of his leadership philosophy and Slalom's phenomenal growth.
• Troy's journey from small-town Iowa to co-founding what would become an 11,000-person global consulting firm
• The serendipitous failed sales call that turned into a 30-year career when Troy met Slalom's founder Brad Jackson
• How Troy transformed traditional recruiting by focusing on relationships first and hiring as a natural byproduct
• The creation of "Slalom buzz" through personal connections rather than traditional marketing
• Troy's evolution as a leader, including the pivotal moment when he overcame his biases against "fluffy" leadership training
• The power of personal mantras like "Everything always works out" and "What's the worst that could happen?"
• Why gratitude remains one of the most powerful tools for transforming our mindset and relationships
• The importance of getting out in the world and making in-person connections in an increasingly digital age
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The power of gratitude. If you're in a bad mood or having a bad day, the simple fact of you know showing gratitude or thinking about what you have to be grateful for. I mean, we are so blessed, I'm so blessed and I have always been able to get out of a dark spot. If I just think about, let me think about all the good stuff I have in my life, and even showing gratitude, sending a text or an email, I just want to let you know you're doing good. It's weird how these little moments of giving gratitude can turn a bad day into a good day.
Mike Maddock:Welcome to the your Seat at the Table podcast with your hosts Idea Monkey Mike Maddock and Ringleader John Tobin. We're two founders a serial entrepreneur and a billion-dollar operator who talk to leaders about how, when and why they made their most pivotal decisions in life. Join us as we share wisdom, mistakes and a few laughs, learning from the brightest minds in business today.
John Tobin:Welcome to your Seat at the Table. We have Troy Johnson joining us on the podcast. As you know, one of the co-founders of Sloan, I'm a co-founder, troy's a co-founder and, troy, I really want to hear that kind of co-founder story. If you will, and before we get there, I just would you mind sharing for the audience and Mike a little bit what it was like growing up in Iowa. And Mike, you're going to be upset to hear that Troy went to University of Iowa.
Mike Maddock:Oh my Lord, we know that you are a big Cyclone. Iowa State fan. I have a serious problem, we have a problem.
John Tobin:We have a problem right in the beginning of this podcast.
Mike Maddock:Let's go Cyclones. Let's go Cyclones. Let's go Cyclones.
Troy Johnson:You'll appreciate, even though there's a rivalry. My dad grew up in the radio business and we always had season tickets to the Iowa State football games, so I went to many, many games and I'm actually a Cyclone fan as well, even though I'll always root against them after playing the Hawks.
Mike Maddock:All right, well, that's nice. And back then you really didn't have to buy a ticket. They let you in for free just because there was nobody in the stands. Meanwhile, in Iowa City, you couldn't get a seat unless you were, you know, independently wealthy, as I recall.
John Tobin:But Troy, you grew up in Des Moines right.
Troy Johnson:Yep, yeah, I grew up in Des Moines. I was born there, went to high school there, went to college there at University of Iowa. I did try a stint at Wichita State for just one semester. I'm a big golfer. I tried to make the golf team. I failed. So I flipped back to University of Iowa with a bunch of my friends and yeah, I've still got a lot of family and friends there. I'm going back in a few weeks to see my mom and, yeah, I really appreciate having my roots back in a few weeks to see my mom. And yeah, I really appreciate having my roots back in Iowa.
John Tobin:Troy bringing up golf. Like you, mike. You might not know, but Troy is like an amazing athlete. No, you are man, you're a really good athlete and I can imagine you, as you are still playing, hockey was a really good tight end in football. Golfer, of all those things, what are you most proud of what? What was your best athletic feat that you ever had in your entire life?
Troy Johnson:uh well, first of all it was, you know, big fish, small pond syndrome. So you know the athletics in des moines iowa, different than the big cities Probably. The one that stands out is I won the Des Moines City Boys Junior Golf Tournament and it was a tournament that was you qualified to play match play and then each day you would play until there's just two people left. And because there wasn't a lot going on in Des Moines Iowa back in the early 80s, the TV cameras would come out and they would follow it and they would interview. And so as you went through that tournament, um, I ended up facing my best friend, jay Allen. You've met Jay before and finals were both pretty good golfers.
Troy Johnson:But, um, you know, we got interviewed on, you know, um channel eight news, uh, our pictures in the paper again small town sports. But I got a little press and so that's probably my claim to fame in my early days of being a golfer growing up. And I don't know, that was a fun one.
Mike Maddock:One of the things I loved about going to Iowa is that you're going to Iowa State and Ames. The better of the two schools, anyway, was that people grew up in such small towns that if they didn't play on the football team, the baseball team were in the school play. They wouldn't have a play, they wouldn't have a baseball team, they wouldn't have a football team, and it was amazing how these kids were like. First of all, they were one degree away from everyone in the state. You know it's two degrees of separation in Iowa, but Des Moines is a pretty big town even back then and you played tight end in high school then.
Troy Johnson:Yeah, I played tight end on our football team. I wasn't good enough to play D1 sports Although, because I did make all conference I did get a form letter from Hayden Fry, who, if he had any kind of an accolade so I always have fun saying I was recruited by the University of Iowa, but I turned them down, which really was just a form letter that came from hate. I wish I had kept that thing. It would have been a funny soundbite to have today. But, um, but no, I played, uh, we were in smaller schools and it was a lot of fun. But, to your point, sports, um, learning about teamwork and competition and leadership, I was, I was super blessed to play hockey, football and sports like that. I learned a ton, just about some of the things and principles that maybe we'll talk about a bit today.
Mike Maddock:And so the first football game next year of the season is Iowa State versus Kansas State in Dublin. Great golfing in Dublin, are you going to go over there and do a twofer?
Troy Johnson:I'm an Iowa fan, not an Iowa State fan, but I could be persuaded. If you know, john, you know your wife went to Iowa State, so maybe we kind of go support the Cyclones.
John Tobin:That's what I'm talking about.
Mike Maddock:John.
Troy Johnson:Let's go.
John Tobin:We've been working some golf around that I might be more willing, but so hey. Troy, let's fast forward a little bit. So you graduate University ofowa um decide to make your way out west. There was a lot of good stories that we won't share on this podcast about you hitchhiking across and across the country and like across the country on my first day graduation, on a bet um from iowa city to uh, california, so that was a true story but, but one of the things about Troy is like he will do anything, like he's.
John Tobin:he's not afraid to do anything and not afraid to try anything and on a moment's notice, frankly, and we'll get. We'll get into maybe some of your corny monsters in a little bit, but just fast forward to you. You make your way out to Colorado and you're working for the Colorado Rockies and just tell us the first time that you met Brad Jackson, who is currently our CEO of Slalom and really the original entrepreneur for Slalom. Maybe talk about that and meeting Brad and I think what was at the time called Accounting Quest, yep.
Troy Johnson:Yeah, I know, you know I first job out of schools with a bank and it was a great first experience. But when I moved to Colorado with my girlfriend, I just wanted to do something different. So I got a job at the Colorado Rockies in their sales team. We were doing business to business sales of season tickets and suites inside sales so we weren't going out meeting people's all over the phone this is back before video and even internet and getting to know. And it's like my second day and I'd never been in sales before. But they gave us these lead sheets and accounting quests.
Troy Johnson:I had the A's and B's and so I was calling new businesses that had just formed in the spirit of, hey, new businesses may want to use Colorado Rockies seats, suites, seats, to entertain customers, right? So I think it was my second day on the job. I called Brad and I got a hold of him and got talking to him. At the time he was talking about his new company, accounting Quest, and it was accounting and finance staffing. I didn't know a whole lot about it, but over a period of about a month, you know, he said well, let me think about it and I'd call him back the next week. Well, I'm leaning in, let me think about it. But ultimately I failed. I did not sell him season tickets, but at the end of that process you get to know customers in a set of calls like that, he's like you did a good job. If you're ever looking for a job, just wouldn't buy it, I'd hire you.
John Tobin:And at the time.
Troy Johnson:I was always on this conference call with him and his early stage partner at the time, nora, and it was so interesting to. In my mind, I knew they were a startup, but I thought they were a bigger company. So one day I literally it's's like you know brad told me to stop by, and so after work I went in, I took my resume and I dropped it off and, uh, I ended up meeting brad in person for the first time. We went out, had a beer, talked a little bit about his business I didn't realize there was literally just two of them at the time and the next day I got a chance to meet his partner and they hired me. So I was a failed sales process that I turned into a job about a month or two later and I was fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time and meet Brad and he gave me a job in the early days. That was the best decision of my life.
Mike Maddock:a job in the early days. That was a best decision in my life. It's amazing how um life life finds you. I think Woody Allen said 80% of life is just showing up. Yeah, and if you're out in the game, meeting people, serendipitous things just happen and like 80% of life is just being out in the game, like in the current, and good for you. That's a great. I love that story.
Troy Johnson:You know it's a good point, I think. Um, even when I got my job with the Rockies, uh, I was going to the Denver Broncos and the Rockies and just trying to get any kind of a foot in the door with a professional sports group. I just thought it'd be cool and, uh, I was riding in the elevator with the guy that ran the sales team. Serendipitously, I asked about, I just dropped my resume off because you know everyone's sending resumes to companies even today, even back then, um, but I happen to be the right place at the right time and I was like I'm super interested, I'll do anything. And he gave me a job. So back to your point, mike, getting out there, connecting you never know where a relationship or connection could lead and and that served me well, some of my luckiest moments in life served me that way. And John, we kind of met that way.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, I want to jump in because you're making me think of something else Young people. I'm talking to a lot of young people today and everything is text and since I cut my teeth in marketing and advertising, picking up the phone and calling someone now is like revolutionary. No, I texted them, I emailed them, so getting in a car, driving somewhere and saying, hey, I'm the person that sent you a text, if I was talking to a young person today, I'd be like totally old schooling it. Pick up the phone, go see them, go talk to them, but everyone's in their room sending texts, is that? Is that anyway, just an observation.
Troy Johnson:No, I, my daughter, just got done with college and, uh, I, just I got invited to an event down in Southern California. Um, she's six months in her career. I'm like, hey, I got invited to this event. I can't go, but you should go. And she went and she met a couple of people, and so I absolutely agree. Whether they're events or connections or calling people, good things happen when you're out there, you know, colliding with people and so many relationships. Back to your point, mike being in the right place at the right time, you kind of make your own life.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, absolutely.
John Tobin:So, Troy, really good segue. As the company kind of started in 1993, as the company kind of gets going a little bit down this accounting and finance staffing path. It was around the dot-com startup time that you sort of tried to branch off and start more of an IT version of that. Is that fair to say? And then maybe talk a little bit about how we met, you and I met.
Troy Johnson:Yeah, we had grown from one office to five offices. I had moved to Portland to open a Portland office, then to Seattle where we were headquartered. We had five offices at the time. And then when things were kind of collapsing and business got very tough, we were kind of simplifying things and Brad, our CEO, said, hey, why don't you try to get an IT component of the business going? And at the time in the late 90s the CFO office were doing implementing Oracle and SAP and the technology investments were being made and obviously the dot-com boom happened as well.
Troy Johnson:And I didn't know a lot about technology and so in that process and we were doing, you know, we put contractors out or we do executive search and yeah, so I was just trying to figure it out. I knew it would be really smart to find someone with good IT or technology background to join us. At the same time we were working on jobs with customers and, john, when I first met you, I had a really good senior technology job with one of our customers and you were interviewing for it. And so in that process we got to know each other and at one point I remember you saying, hey, I've kind of thought about starting my own consulting thing and it stuck with me. And through that process, instead of you going through that final step with Starbucks as a VP of architecture, you know I flipped the script and hey, you should consider us and help us launch a technology component to our business.
Troy Johnson:You know you met Brad, we got to know you and at the time and this is a funny story, mike you know we were growing but it was tough times and behind the scenes, I mean, we really were running thin. You know we didn't have a lot of capital. We were raising some outside capital to kind of stay in business a little bit. I know. You know Brad loves telling the story where he, you know, mortgages house to try to, you know, make ends meet. I loaned the company some money and I didn't have a lot of money but I gave a loan. So we were really, you know, digging in at a time where, you know, a lot of businesses were going out of business.
Troy Johnson:But, john, when you joined, from what were really challenging times and you joined, and that first year took us a little time to get going. But ultimately one of the best decisions we ever made as a company is getting John on board. And John, thank you for saying yes. I remember we were talking. You were in Disneyland with your kids and we're talking shopping. I'm like, john, you should come join us or go to Starbucks. This is the better play, and you know you took less money to join us, but you know you're an entrepreneur at heart, I believe. And, man, the last 30 years have been great.
John Tobin:Yeah, I did kind of zero research.
Mike Maddock:Which is not like you actually.
John Tobin:I would have never done it, and so it did work out. But I remember like the one month in and literally like we had to skip payroll and I'm like, what have I done? I've really I've ruined my career.
John Tobin:And one of the funny stories, mike, was with Troy.
John Tobin:Like I, it was miserable three, four first months because you know, again, the economy was terrible and I'm trying to start this company not really knowing exactly what to do and how to get business, and I sold before at E&Y but that was like with a big company and I had just been, I sold through delivery but like almost doing cold calling and like that's very different and um, so it was a grind the first three or four months.
John Tobin:But what really kept me there was Troy, because we started playing golf together and even though, like I, the job was miserable, we would have these weekly golf matches, like we'd get the very first tee time at 5 am at these different local courses and I'd be home by like nine where the kids were just waking up and stuff. So like that kept me going. And then tag Troy, if you remember, thursday after work and golf and yeah, it was like more social things that kept me in the door, that kept me in the game, kind of okay, just keep going, uh, but that was really you and that that's kind of a big part of from from the cheap seats watching slalom grow from.
Mike Maddock:Uh, how many employees were there then? Like 10, 10, 12, 13, 15?
John Tobin:Well, I mean the slalom part. There was me.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, okay, Literally it was me.
John Tobin:And then Troy was in between like two degrees or at the time it was called two degrees the accounting and finance staffing, sort of IT-ish staffing. And then slalom, as we were getting going, we were called, we called ourselves two degrees consulting, but it it. It really wasn't until like four months in that we started to hire. We hired our first contractor and then couple contractors and then about a year in, we had maybe, maybe, maybe eight consultants and then got back into AT&T wireless, like cause. I had been there as an employee and once I got in there the floodgates really opened. And that's where Troy I don't know your view of it, but for me it was like Troy, just forget whatever you were doing before. Run, come over full-time two degrees consulting, run sales recruiting, because I've got to take on this project and I'm not gonna have time to really grow the business but make that's. That's the way I thought about it. Did you think of it that way, or we're kind?
Troy Johnson:of yeah, I, I remember it. You know we always have fun remembering things a little differently, but I know actually you know, in the early days, you know you were joining to start consulting.
Troy Johnson:you know I was trying to help but sort of like Eric a wooden Liz would take you out to some of their customers to introduce you as the IT guy. I always remember our first Christmas party was seven employees. So you started in March. So we're at the end of the year with seven. The next year we had 37.
Troy Johnson:But if you remember, at the end of that first year Brad came to you and I and was like he gave us a contest that if we could get 20 people billing he would give us an all expense paid trip to Pebble Beach. And we're like, let's go. And I think we had six months to do it and you know it was funny. Maybe it's serendipitous, but we're both golf fanatics and we doubled down and I think at that point that's where I started spending almost all my time doing the sales or recruiting with you and tried to. So that would have been, like you know, about nine months in or starting that January. But I feel like that contest kind of locked us in, to lock me into being, you know, very focused on helping grow the part of the business you were launching.
Mike Maddock:And from the like the, the thread that I see again from the cheap seats is that you, that you have a core value. I think you say it's smile is the core value, but it's having fun, and I've been to some slalom gatherings that are an awful lot of fun and it seems that that seed of we're going to have a social aspect. We're going to create kinship and togetherness, almost like a family atmosphere in this company. That probably started when you and Brad were on the golf course trying to decide whether this is a good use of your time. Well, at least we've got this, because that continues today. I know what you're up to, john, when you're building new offices and a lot of it is okay. Let's go out and get to know each other and have some fun. You might say it's checking people's values. I would say yes, and because one of the things we value is community and relationship and I think it's a, I think it's part of the DNA that has made Slalom such an outstanding company to work for and work with.
John Tobin:I definitely think getting to know people at a deeper level is super important for us, and especially from a leadership standpoint, so it's always that's always pivotal. It's like we we don't force people to get together, but they want to, because we just hire people that are cool and personable and real.
Mike Maddock:Hey Troy, have you ever thrown anybody off your team? No names, please, because they just weren't fun. Like really really super clever, but oh my God, what a killjoy.
Troy Johnson:I have not ever done that, but I have to admit I never have. I never have. But I will say, like a bias, a blind spot, I had Mike kind of on this topic as a leader. I tended for a long time to hire people. That, to John's point, you know we would if they would come to our happy hours or you get to know them socially and they have, you know, common bonds, you know extroverted personas. If you will, I absolutely would, would migrate to hiring those people, or tiebreakers. Those would be who I choose.
Troy Johnson:I have to admit it took me a few years but I started seeing some people that maybe weren't the life of the party, but they were very good thinkers, very good leaders, very skilled at their craft, and I was not that I didn't expect them to be successful or good, but I was surprised how good they were. And even if they weren't, maybe in the exact same. You know wheelhouse, that that you know you have a beer or you get to know someone over lunch. It's kind of fun. Um, so many of our incredible employees.
Troy Johnson:Um, you know I learned a good lesson that you know that could be a component to it, but it's more than that, and don't get me wrong. You know you want to be. You know, john, I love your quote that core values, travel, going from city to city, country to country, do what's right, always celebrate authenticity, smile. But we are different and authentic personas. I I actually learned a lot by not getting. I had to unbias a little bit of that because I I probably started tipping my hat too much over kind of hiring the same kind of people over and over.
Mike Maddock:And Rainmakers tend to. One of your superhero powers is believing in possibility, right in other people, and I've made the mistake of projecting oh, this person could totally do it, and without the critical thinking of, really can they do it.
Troy Johnson:So, anyway, so but I'll say one more thing. There's no doubt, john, that in those tough moments starting something up or being tough moment, being with people that you like or that you've really spent time with man like you can be in a hole or a corner, but if you're going to be chopping wood and digging out of a tough spot, it's always good to do that with people that you've built a connection personally with as well.
John Tobin:Yeah, true built a connection personally with as well. Yeah, true, so, hey, troy, I alluded to this, but you know, sloan eventually became like 11,000 people and we've retracted a little bit from that right now. But as we think about that, growing Mike, growing all organically we've only done that, no acquisitions or anything. Growing all organically We've only done that, no acquisitions or anything. It's all been really a function of our talent acquisition capability and team, which was spearheaded, founded, led, inspired by Troy.
John Tobin:So, troy, talk about that a little bit. I mean, for me you were always growth, pushing me, pushing me to grow, definitely more uncomfortable than I wanted to, but like you were always pushing, that, brad was always pushing kind of bigger visions, bigger thoughts and ideas around what, uh, what we can almost change and for society, in a way, um and growth. But, like for for you, for me you're always that beacon of growth, but a big part of that was hiring people, hiring lots of people. Talk about your view on the talent acquisition capability, how you think of it and maybe how you think of it differently than perhaps how other people have thought about it over the years, because I always say that that's one of our differentiators is the approach we took on how to do that.
John Tobin:And so just talk about that framing that organization a little bit.
Troy Johnson:Yeah, yeah, thank you. And, by the way, the success we had in part was we hired really good talent acquisition teams, but, john, I'll give you credit. And in part was we hired really good talent acquisition teams but John, I'll give you credit Building a culture of recruiting where you, as a leader, would take a meeting anytime, anywhere, whether it was a senior person or not, like, hey, I'll tell our story to you. And back in the early days, we were such underdogs we needed to sell ourselves, person by person by person, person by person. So back to you know. The question, though, is you know, when I was the staffing roots, I think, served us well as we grew our consulting.
Troy Johnson:You know teams from our recruiting perspective, and you know one of the things I learned in the early executive search days was that and this is before the internet and your old school hand hunting and you know a company would say, hey, I need to hire this particular person, and you would go start trying to find good people, and I would always lose to to a couple of the people have been around a long time because, you know, a lot of times they'd work with multiple firms and those particular firms would you know the old guys like Dick basic in Denver. You know three of us would be working on it. He's my competition as soon as we all found out there's this cool new job in Denver, like he had calls out in the next 60 minutes because he had spent years getting to know these people. And I bring that story up because one of the philosophies, I think, in good executive search and headhunting is if you go out and you know all the best people, when an opportunity arises, you're already ready to go, which is the different than hey, we need to go hire these five people and then you got to go find them and it takes a lot of time. So I think that ethos of good executive search, where you're constantly your goal is to get to know all the best people and then hiring is just a byproduct of having a great network. I think that served us really well.
Troy Johnson:And then the other thing I learned, john, was that you know if you were to call 10 people and say, hey, are you looking for a new job, you know maybe 20 to 30 percent are actively looking. 20 to 30 percent are not looking and they're perfectly happy, but a good 50 percent they're not looking. But if there's a better opportunity, they would listen. And I think that's another element, john, that we always had is, you know so many traditional recruiters. Both today and in the early days, the TA teams will be like, hey, you know, I work at Psalm, I've got this really cool opportunity, looking for a new job. 70% of the people say no, I'm actually not looking. But if you reframe that, it's like, hey, I want to really get to know you and make sure I know more about you, make sure you know more about us. You may or may not be looking for a job, but if your situation ever changed, you're going to want to know about who we are and what we're doing. And it helped us.
Troy Johnson:Slalom started to grow because we got this buzz like who is this little company coming into town that's doing so great or good? People are joining and I always felt, john, like if I could get to know a person. Sloan had so many great things Our growth story, our culture, our people, the success we were always having, whether we were underdogs in our second or third market. We're about to be the great next thing. To be the great next thing or even as we grew, and today we're 10,000 plus and 10 countries and 50 cities, and we're known as one of the very prominent successful businesses.
Troy Johnson:We always had a lot of tools in our toolkit to share with people to get them excited about our company. And so back to that point, john, I always felt like our TA team was very special. Go get to know the best people. And if you get to know the best people, and if you get to know what they like about their current situation and what's not perfect, what would make a better career for them, I always felt like, more than not, we'd have an opportunity for them.
John Tobin:And Mike, I don't know if you tease this out a little bit embedded in there, because I frame it for people around the differentiation with our TA, but the way Troy just explained it, it's kind of like a solution sell. You're not selling the product or the widget, you're actually just having a conversation, teasing out what a person could want in their career and then working into that from a value standpoint. So the way I would always say that is like we actually kind of run our TA function like a sales process, like a sales function, and I think that that made a lot of difference with metrics, measurements, activity being very activity focused. So I don't know, mike, if you've seen anything like that before, but I think there's a good parallel between how we did that.
Mike Maddock:I think that's very insightful and I'm also connecting the fact that Troy is from Iowa and uh, and from, like small town, usa, where people are deeply curious about each other and they want to know each other and they want to know. Well, you know, tell me about your journey and I think, again another. It's occurring to me as I watch from the cheap seats over here that they're that recruiting is such a huge part of Slalom success and more than that, the core value around the recruiting is the curiosity about what makes people go, and so I think that's you know I don't want to just the bullet should not forget the gun Like this all started somewhere and it started in Des Moines, apparently, where people are. You know, I spent a lot of time in Iowa and I remember getting back to Chicago and going why are people so rude here? And then go to New York. I'm like, why are people so much ruder here?
Mike Maddock:There's a cultural dynamic with geography and one of the things that is true about Iowa is that people are very curious about each other where they grew up, who the brother-in-law is, who their sister, all that stuff matters and I think, troy, you growing up with that, it comes very naturally to you and sure, let's make a process out of it, but, more importantly, let's hire people that have the same type of curiosity about people, because that's what makes us go. So that's the connection I'm making Interesting and John you're like, but there's a process in the system. Yeah, that's what I'm seeing here.
Troy Johnson:They're both true, they're both you know, so I'm enjoying the conversation that TA process was. You know, john, the budgets that we've had for marketing over the years, especially the early days, were very small.
John Tobin:We didn't do a lot of marketing.
Troy Johnson:So we'd go into a city like Chicago one of our earliest markets and you get three or four recruiters and they're meeting eight to 10 people in person over coffee per week. That's a couple thousand people that are going to hear the slalom story. We call it slalom buzz. You go meet a couple thousand people in a period of 12, 18 months and they're targeted personas that work with the right companies, the right kind of skills and experiences, and all of a sudden there's this buzz in town like hey, have you heard about these guys? So not only would some of those people join us, but others would get referred into us. And then even on the sales side we'd kind of follow our way into business at times.
Troy Johnson:But that kind of slalom buzz getting out there and getting old school versus you know, kind of sitting behind a virtual film from another city and asking people if they're you know what the resume looks like we would build great connections and a lot of people that didn't even join us would root for us, would help us, would refer friends in and you know, back to your point earlier, mike it's like there's something really magical about building a personal connection with someone, especially in the art of recruiting Most people are excited about what's possible in my career, and if there's an opportunity out there to meet someone that's kind of in the center of that, people are curious about their best interest, which is their career. It's something they're so invested heavily in. I always try to take opportunities and meet people in their careers, whether it's writing or swimming. It's something we're doing or not, so I've always found and it's always fun too it's great.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, there's a Simon Sinek. People, the whole start. We've all heard this start with wine. I remember the first time I heard Simon talk about it. He well, I'll tell you a quick story. So I'm in a room with Simon Sinek years ago and somebody walks in the room and I'm trying to introduce all these CEOs and this guy's on a he's got spiked white hair, he's wearing leather pants, he's wearing like a leather studded shirt and he's talking in a sequined flip phone, a pink sequined flip phone. This actually happened. And Simon's in the corner watching. He's coming, he's going to talk later in the afternoon and the guy goes up to the breakfast buffet and starts slamming things around, talking loud on this pink sequin flip phone, and anyway, so fast forward. Now it's two o'clock in the afternoon.
Mike Maddock:Simon does his start with Y speech and he gets done and there's an orthopedic surgeon that goes hey, I don't get it, man, I operate in people. My why is to make people be able to walk again. And so Simon goes. Okay, let me try to explain this to you and forgive me because I can be kind of an asshole. But this guy over here, what is your name? The guy goes, bobby. He goes. Yeah, when you walked in here with your white spiked hair and your leather pants and your ridiculous flip phone, I thought who is this jerk? But then you stood up in front of us and you told us what you did for a living, and your why is the same as my why. So anything you want me to do, my answer is going to be yes. That's the power of why.
Mike Maddock:And the guy. His name is Bobby Seeger. I saw him a couple years later. He hangs out with Sting. He does face-to-face philanthropy. He's a venture capitalist but he believes in making a difference by being in people's faces and he's Bono is his buddy. Like. This guy is like crazy eccentric. And it made me think that I've referred a couple few people that's a Midwestern term Troy, a couple few people to Slalom I think about, like Deb Robinson, who works in Chicago. I knew Deb for years and she's like hey, I'm looking for a new gig. I'm like you should work at Slalom because Deb is mid like she carries her values, like Slalom values. So I totally agree that when you build a culture right, it attracts the right people. Like it's a. It's kind of like Simon said, it's like a moth to a flame. People understand what your purpose is. They intuitively know it, and good people come to you.
Troy Johnson:So sorry for the long story, john. You know I can remember in the first few months you, on a napkin, wrote your five values. You know do the right thing, always focus on outcomes and those. The number of times you've referenced values in a one on one, in a quarterly meeting with a customer, you know kind of your point, mike. You know the people that you know are making a little bit of a difference in the world. So I appreciate, if nothing else, getting all of our slalomers on this common ground and I certainly have jumped on those coattails to talk about our values with a lot of pride.
Mike Maddock:Wait, is slalomers a noun? Is that a noun that I was unaware of? Slalomers.
Troy Johnson:Yeah, we also also slaloming if you have a lot.
Mike Maddock:oh, you saw it very, yeah, yes, slaloming slalomers.
John Tobin:The slalomers are slalom or not to slalom I say slalomers, yeah, kind of like it fits like a smurf, like smurf it feels smurfy.
Troy Johnson:I like it when I was following last night with seattle sales go-to-market team at a bar it was super fun, I so I'm still hanging around some of my old peeps there. But yeah, slaloming. We need to have verbs and adjectives and you name the component.
John Tobin:I want to jump forward a little bit, just fitting with the theme of the podcast, around your seat at the table and at Slalom. When did you feel like you had a seat at the table? And then, if you can put that in the context of maybe a decision that you were a part of or a decision that we made, I loved it for you to share that, Like when you felt like you had that seat at the table this is a decision that you're a big part of and then how you went about helping make that decision.
Troy Johnson:Great question. You know, going back to early days, honestly, kind of from day one. You know, one of the things I appreciated from Brad Jackson in the earliest days is he would show us our financials. Like we're one office, two, three, but he would always show the financials. He was always very transparent on the business, which not all companies are leaders. I've invested in a small company here that doesn't do that and I'm like, hey, you should be more transparent.
Troy Johnson:But long story short, from the earliest days, one of the first decisions you know we ended up getting into after my first year, I was like I want to help open offices and we opened our Denver office first, then our Seattle office and I'm like, brad, you know, I want to help open an office, I think I can do it, and he didn't really believe I could. So he gave me this astronomical sales goal, like if you get to this goal for sales, I'll let you open an office. Well, what do you think happened? I worked my butt off and got to that goal faster than he thought. So that's when I went and opened the Portland office. So maybe my first experience back to your question was getting to open an office in Portland. I was trying to get to Chicago or bigger city, but Brad loves to tell the story that he was in Seattle and if I failed, portland was a close drive down. He wouldn't have to fly across the country. He didn't tell me that until later. I was like, why Portland? He's like, oh well, it's a great Nike's there and that really is because he could help me if I needed help, as have grown and had more success.
Troy Johnson:You know, when you joined, you know I was talking to Brad and at the time we didn't have a lot of money. When we met you and we were doing IT stuff, you know I had to get Brad. I had to call him a couple of times or I bought, like Brad, you need to be this guy, john Tobin. He's amazing and the reality was the first couple of times I tried to get his attention for it he was dealing with banking issues and a lot of stuff. His last thing was bringing on a senior person and making that big bet. But and it just took me a couple of times, but I think that was another one is like getting you on board and moving out of IT staffing and you had this vision for consulting. That is easy for Brad, once he met you, to jump on that wagon.
Troy Johnson:But I would say you know, even getting you on board and then you know kind of fast forwarding, john, over the years as we've opened up offices. You know I've been fortunate to work very closely with you on our expansion efforts. But even you know thinking about how we went to open Australia, you know some of those stories of which country to go and where and which city to go and why there have been a number of those different geographies that were not a part of a plan that was thought out but like a moment or a situation or leader we met. So some of those situations of opening. So I've probably always felt, for better or for worse, I've had a seat at the table and certainly, as we've gotten bigger, there have been some tables I have not been at and some tables I have been. But I've just been blessed from the early days to be, you know, more welcome than not working with you and Brad and and being a part of the story.
Mike Maddock:Is there? Is there a leadership, a belief about leadership that you had 35 years ago that you don't believe? That? You've changed your mind on today, troy, something that you believed early days, that like yeah you know, actually it's just the opposite.
Troy Johnson:I was a crappy leader for a long time. I mean I literally and I'll give, you know, john, you a lot of credit for it because you know I watched you as an early stage leader, help grow our business. But you know, mike, you and John influenced me dramatically because you went through Stagen, the leadership academy that was. You two went to and then John started bringing other leaders in. So you know, when you two went through it, John started bringing some of our senior leaders At the time we were in maybe six cities and each city had a GM and John, one by one, was bringing those leaders, taking them through Stegan. But John didn't invite me into it. I'm like, why don't you invite me into it, john? And he's like, well, I didn't think you would be interested.
Troy Johnson:And probably to his good read, I always said, oh, leadership, those are fluffy stuff. It his uh good read, I always said, oh, leadership, they can't, those are fluffy stuff. It's all about, like, sales and just going and getting things done. And and I remember the first day I went to stegan, you know they had a great quote which is if you've seen the movie the matrix, you know, um, you know, that's the, the two different color pills, and one is about truth and one is not, and it's like I can't tell you where you're going to be at the end of this journey, but I'll just tell you you'll see the world differently. Yeah, and I thought it was fluff, but I will tell you.
Troy Johnson:After I went through that, understanding some of the biases that I had as a leader and being self-oriented and, um, you know, little tools and tricks of the trade. Um, you know, I there's a great quote by ralph nader and it's, uh, leadership. The purpose of it is not to get more followers, but it's to get more leaders. And the whole idea of being a leader is so much different than being a manager or, you know, being responsible to tell a team what to do. So, back to your point, mike, I'm going through Stagen and learning more about leadership through working with John, going through that process and then changing my mindset to be a better leader. You know I started seeing a lot of the biases that I had opportunity to be a better leader. So just the opposite. I wish I had learned some of these principles earlier in life, but it took me kind of a wake-up call to, kind of you know, go through a program that exposed some of my weakness. That helped me a ton.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, hat tip to Rand, stagan and the Stagan ILP Integral Leadership Program. John, we'll have Rand on the podcast.
John Tobin:Yeah, we got to have him on.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, I was with him a couple of weeks ago. He came to a Flourish Advisory Board and he was talking about how he can describe leadership as, in one word, it's responsibility. And he said, with awareness once you're made aware of something, then you have a choice, and once you have that choice, it's your responsibility to follow through on it. So, trey, that was a beautiful reflection on how whoa look at this blind spot.
Mike Maddock:Now that I see, it what am I going to do? What am I going to do with this blind spot? And good for you guys, because I know that you drove that learning all the way through your organization and I know Rand you're is really proud of that. You know like that'll be part of his legacy, your legacy, and I know it made it. He grew a hat size or two although he'd never admit it.
Troy Johnson:It's a constant journey, right? The one thing I learned through that process it's not like you take a class and now you're a good leader, but what ends up happening is, as you start to grow as a leader, you start being quicker to recognize oh wow, I could have handled that different, I could have been better here. So you start recognizing your errors better, you start minimizing them and then constantly trying to grow. I think about the drama triangle, john. I've taught that to my family and a lot of my friends, and so those are those little tools, that kind of stay with me today. But I think recognizing when you're not the best person you could be at any moment, that's half of the battle where, for a long time, I always thought I was always right.
John Tobin:I chose to teach my girls the drama triangle when they were 15 and 13. It was maybe not the best time where they were most open to that, but good memory Me too. And it comes back at you, doesn't it where?
Mike Maddock:they were most open to that. But good memory though, and it comes back at you, doesn't?
Troy Johnson:it.
Mike Maddock:They're like okay, Victor, All right.
Troy Johnson:I literally have taught it to not just my daughter's volleyball teammates but I've taught it to the parents having drinks after and we'll do the drama triangle. Have a lot of fun with it. So my daughter gave me a nice compliment not too ago Cause over the years my nickname was coach Johnson, cause, john, like you, I'd bring principles of leadership to my son and my daughter and my wife, and my wife didn't like it, but she was okay with it, but they called me coach Johnson is like my wife, are you bringing more of that stuff home? And my daughter gave me a really nice compliment.
Troy Johnson:She's like you know, dad, I don't remember all the stuff you tried to teach me, but I remember you're always trying to teach me to be a better leader and a better person. And the idea that I was always trying to help her become better has kind of sunk in and now I'm really proud of her. She she does lean forward to try to improve and to learn and you know she's early career, but I I'm super proud of how her mindset of growth and just you know, being uh open to feedback is is great. So anyway, off on a tangent, uh, love it. You know that, maya angelou, they don't remember what you say, but they remember how you feel and it's great.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, and a quick, a quick toast to the heavens, um, to david emerald, who we lost about a month and a half ago, who wrote the empowerment dynamic, which is the yeah, you know, basically he, he carried the uh, the empowerment dynamic, the drama triangle through stegan and has given a gift to uh tens of thousands, if not so many thousands of people I've read that.
Troy Johnson:I've passed that book out to many people. It's something that transcended my slalom days into my family and definitely good book.
John Tobin:It's been a quick 45 minutes already, troy. We're in a little bit of a lightning round here. Now I want to ask you one of the things that I thought was really funny when you did Mike. We have this thing called Slalom Speaks and it's kind of like a TED Talk, but to slalomers and could be customers or partners, and you do it in like a little bit of an auditorium. I did one, troy did one, and when Troy did his thing he talked about these corny mantras, that kind of inspire him or keep him going. And for me, like I was on the receiving end of those corny mantras throughout my time that I've got to know Troy, but like one of them in particular but I'd love for you to hit on other ones, troy.
John Tobin:I'm a little bit more on a positive side. I would say I'm more of a realist. On a negative side, you could say I'm a pessimist and the sky is falling and I'm always doomed For me. I am sort of negative but it drives me, it fuels me. But when people hear that, it doesn't necessarily feel them and I just be on down in the dumps and Troy would always push me along, no matter what was happening. And it could be. It could be in work, it could be on the golf course or whatever. But Troy would always say Tobin, everything always works out.
Troy Johnson:Don't worry about it.
John Tobin:Everything always works out and you know, for for the most part it kind of did. But like I, I talk a little bit about your corny mantras trey and name a couple of them and like how do you, how does that, how does that fuel you?
Troy Johnson:yeah, no, thank you for it. Well, funny story I was I was asked to give a slalom speaks and you know you had given one and tony rojas, a bunch of people had and I had not, and I was having trouble figuring out what my topic was and I was like it was like a week or two before I was like I don't know what to speak about and obviously it's a big auditorium of people and as the keynote speaker, with many others doing it, you're expected to be good. John, you had a great one with the influences I think is yours and people influence you. But I was just kind of rolling around and I kind of realized there's a good book by Dan Coyle called the Culture Code and there's a component in there where they explore great company cultures and one of the components in there was really good companies have these mantras, like Nike, just do it, or you know whatever those mantras are, and we've had a couple of some and it was funny because I've rallied. You know it's not, it's very natural.
Troy Johnson:As a matter of fact, one of the things I learned is to have like negative self-talk, like most people, the amount of negative self-talk that you have every single minute, every day. Their scientist says it's like thousands of times. And so from my earliest days I've always had these little mantras that I would use to get me into a better position, whether it's to help with a decision or get out of a hole or just have fun. So I realized there are these little sayings that I'm probably annoying people like Tobin with hey, everything always works out right. So I've got a bunch of them. One of them is especially around leadership, making calls and decisions like is it easy or hard? Is it good or bad? I'm like what's the worst that can happen? I've used that my whole life. If I'm trying to peer pressure my buddies, hey, let's go to Mardi Gras and skip work and choose door.
Mike Maddock:You wound up in prison a few times because of that. Yeah, you know I digress hey.
Troy Johnson:John, let's go up in Australia. What's the worst that can happen? You know it's like what's the worst that can happen when you really regress it. You kind of think about that and one of my other mantras is AIP anything is possible. It's like, oh my gosh, anything is possible if you have the right mantras that have followed us around.
Troy Johnson:Wd world domination was something we talked a lot about in the early days. Which the cartoon Pinky and the Brain there's, these two lab rats that try to take over the world. We just had fun in the early days as the ultimate underdogs small little slum with 50 people trying to take on Accenture WD and growing. And today, in the geopolitical stuff going on, it's probably not appropriate, but it was a mantra that a bunch of us used in the early days just to like, we can take on, you know, any big competitor out there, even if we're the smallest of competitors.
Troy Johnson:Be grateful. You know, one of the things that I've found in life is that gratitude, the power of gratitude if you're in a bad mood or having a bad day, the simple fact of showing gratitude or thinking about what you have to be grateful for. I mean, we are so blessed, I am so blessed and I have always been able to get out of a dark spot. If I just think about, let me think about all the good stuff I have in my life, and even showing gratitude, sending a text or an email, I just want to let you know you're doing good. It's weird how these little moments of giving gratitude can turn a bad day into a good day. So I have a bunch of these little things and for me they've just been these little mantras that come and go. It's funny. On that Psalm speaks In my mind.
Troy Johnson:I was going to have this Oprah moment. Remember when she said hey, everyone, look under your seat. You have, you know, keys to new car. Like I really wanted to have that moment. There's a couple hundred people and and I told a little bit of the story and I did not do that, but I did tell people this anyone that sends me a corny mantra, you're going to get some kind of a price for me. And we ended up. I ended up getting like 60 or 70 of them.
Troy Johnson:We went to Nordstrom's. We took everyone out. I gave him a couple hundred dollar gift card. They all got some new shoes, but I got a bunch of cool ones from there, and so I borrowed a couple of those. One of those was space for grace. You know, give yourself space for grace. Don't be so hard on yourself. We, john, that's a good one for you. You're always so hard on yourself. You know space for grace. It's okay to give yourself a little space for grace in moments where you didn't do your best or could have been better. So I love these little things. They're little psychology twitches for me to definitely try to get out of a bad spot, but also, you know, put an, amplify good spots or inspire other people, you know. Anyway, so they're fun for me and, yeah, I appreciate you bringing it up. That was a fun slow moment for me.
John Tobin:I love it, I love it, mike. Anything in closing. I think you know a lot of our story, but I think you got a little bit different insight, especially different side of it, from Troy, as we finish up here.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, so I love the saying the fish stinks from the head down, or the bottleneck is always at the top of the bottle. The opposite is true too. You guys, it's just really clear and easy for me to see how the people that you are is part of the DNA and part of the reason why Slalom has been so successful, so it's just been really fun for me to watch you two really good friends mix it up. So thank you, troy, thanks for sharing your story, thanks for sharing your story.
Troy Johnson:Yeah well, I appreciate the opportunity, john. If you think about the thousands of slalomers that are at the company today and the many alumni that helped build the company, you know the one simple thing that I woke up every day. My favorite part of my 30 years with the company was, you know, I was getting paid to go talk to amazing people and get them excited about being a part of our company. And you know, if you think about our success, john, in opening a new city or new country, if you don't get the right small cohort of people you know a market leader and a few people you just have to inspire them and maybe even get out of the way. It's really cool to see what people can accomplish when you get the right people.
Troy Johnson:So I was super blessed to be a part of, you know, getting a lot of people into this company, watching all the success they've had. And now that I've just retired, you know there are so many talented people. I can't wait for the next chapters of Slalom and, john, you know, you know you're one of my best friends in the world and Slalom brought us together. But I appreciate the opportunity, mike, to hang out with you. It's been a while and, john, I miss working with you every day, yeah, but I appreciate the opportunity to come on your podcast and tell some old stories.
John Tobin:Thank you, Troy. The company would absolutely I know for a fact not be the same. We would definitely not be as big. You know, 2.5 billion, over 10,000 people. That is you pushing me, us to grow and be bigger, be bolder, and you were always that wind behind me to inspire me. But also really, really encouraging, give me confidence, and so just thank you for joining us on your seat at the table. Thank, really encouraging, give me confidence, and so, um, just thank you for joining us on your seat at the table. Thank you for everything you've done and look forward to really hanging out with you. Uh, especially this summer, Troy, we've got to get out there and, uh, uh, win our next major.
Troy Johnson:All right, we've won three.
John Tobin:We won three member guest tournaments in golf Shocking.
Mike Maddock:So we've got to. The other threat is competitive. Like I'll tell you what, troy, I'll buy you a new car if you build a spaceship. I will build a spaceship. You got to love that. We've also played in a lot of those tournaments.
Troy Johnson:So it's a numbers game a little bit, but John and I have learned how to partner together pretty well on the golf course and there's handicaps and humility, but it's a ton of fun, john.
Troy Johnson:We love competing together and, yeah, you know more fun. Smile and thanks for all you're doing at Slalom and Mike. This is really cool. I appreciate you know the podcast and all the stuff you're doing is really cool. I appreciate you know the podcast and all the stuff you're doing. You're definitely a leader out there making waves and helping others get inspired, so kudos to you too.
Mike Maddock:I think there's only two words left to say Troy, go, cyclones.
John Tobin:Oh gosh, Thanks Troy. Way to end, Way to end that up.
