Your Seat at the Table - Real Conversations on Leadership and Growth
Join hosts Mike Maddock and John Tobin as they delve into authentic stories of leadership, decision-making under pressure, and the invaluable lessons learned along the way. Each episode offers candid conversations with seasoned leaders, exploring the challenges faced, the triumphs celebrated, and the insights gained from real-world experiences. Whether you’re an aspiring leader or a seasoned executive, pull up a chair and find your seat at the table.
Your Seat at the Table - Real Conversations on Leadership and Growth
What Others Can't or Won't Do: Building a Resilient Family Business with Dan Costello
There's nothing quite like a family recipe passed down through generations. When that recipe becomes the foundation of a thriving business that spans restaurants and nationwide retail distribution, the story gets even more fascinating.
Dan Costello, CEO of Home Run Inn Pizza and fourth-generation family member, joins us to share the remarkable journey of this iconic Chicago brand. From humble beginnings on 31st Street where his Italian immigrant grandparents hosted Sunday family dinners, to now being available in grocery stores across all 50 states, the Home Run Inn story exemplifies how staying true to your roots while embracing innovation can lead to lasting success.
What started accidentally in the 1950s when a customer requested partially-baked pizzas to take to his Wisconsin summer home has evolved into a frozen pizza powerhouse. Today, the CPG side represents 85–90% of the business, but the restaurants remain vital to their identity and serve as living laboratories for authentic Chicago-style pizza.
Costello candidly discusses the challenges unique to family businesses, including a difficult succession process that ultimately led to one branch of the family exiting the business entirely. He shares how the company's core values of Family, Pride, Grit, and Courage guide decision-making through tough times, including the pandemic when protecting employees while meeting surging demand required transparent leadership.
For any leader who’s ever felt alone in tough calls, Costello’s story offers a grounded look at what it means to run toward the roar—leaning into discomfort and uncertainty with clarity and conviction. His simple but powerful business philosophy: identify what you do that others can't or won't do. For Home Run Inn, it's their dough-aging process—a technique passed down from his grandfather that creates a distinctive taste competitors can't replicate in the frozen pizza market. While other brands develop products in R&D labs, Home Run Inn remains committed to recipes “born in a kitchen.”
This is peer-powered disruption at its most personal—where family legacy meets operational excellence, and tradition fuels innovation.
Ready to taste the difference four generations of pizza-making expertise brings to the table? Look for Home Run Inn in your local grocery freezer or visit one of their Chicago restaurants to experience this family legacy firsthand.
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If there's a simple question, I guess I would start with somebody that could then lead to a tool to help you. It's like what do you do that others can't or won't do? I mean, if you can identify that, then I would say systems and processes, whether you use attraction or there's strategic tools. I've always been because I've liked scaling up and there's all the tools within a product like that. But I said fundamentally, hopefully you can answer that question. If you can answer that question, what do you do that others can't or won't do, then I think you got something that you can grow and scale.
Mike Maddock:Welcome to the your Seat at the Table podcast with your hosts Idea Monkey Mike Maddock and Ringleader John Tobin. We're two founders a serial entrepreneur and a billion-dollar operator who talk to leaders about how, when and why they made their most pivotal decisions in life. Join us as we share wisdom, mistakes and a few laughs, learning from the brightest minds in business today.
Mike Maddock:Okay, so my story Let me do the welcome to your seat at the table podcast. This morning we have our friend, dan Costello, who's the CEO of a brand that, if you're from Chicago, you grew up eating Home Run in Pizza. It's a great, great pizza. I have a story I'll tell you later about Chicago. You grew up eating home run in pizza. It's a great, great pizza. I have a story. I'll tell you later about it, dan. But welcome, thank you. Good morning, good morning, good Monday morning. Great way to start the week. Tell us your story, Dan. Tell us about your family, how you got started in the business.
Dan Costello:Yeah, well, I grew up with it. So I grew up, you know, it's my um, my mom's side of the family is the, where the, the pizza side, comes from. Uh, so I'm a fourth generation, we're a fourth generation business, fourth generation family member. So I grew up as a kid going to the original homerun ends on 31st streets in little village part of chicago, um, every sunday we were there. Grandparents had, you know, come over from italy so they hosted big family sunday dinners. We had to go every sunday, so I would. We were exposed to the restaurant very early in our lives where, you know, literally like we'd go there, we'd hang out in the kitchen, we'd run around, we'd answer phones, um, and they feed us every sunday me, my cousins. So we did that for lots of years, um, as we grew up and just kind of got exposed to it and always, you know, loved it. I mean, it was just just, it was something that we identified with and it was very important to everybody in our family.
Dan Costello:So, as I went through school and education, did jobs there in the summers, got out of college, wasn't sure what I wanted to do, I was actually enrolled in law school and decided not to go. I sat with my uncle, my mom's brother, brother, and he was like, look, the business is growing. We got a couple restaurants. At this point in time he had started frozen pizza. He was, you know, really kind of we had been in the frozen pizza business since the 50s, like just making pizzas and freezing them in the kitchen but he was the one who really kind of was trying to innovate and upgrade the manufacturing and really started that and he's like look, I need help, it need help. It's like you go to law school. He's like but if you would, could you come work for me for a couple of years? Maybe help me? And if you want to go back, you go back. Well, as most failing business goes once you start, you kind of then it's like then it's the mafia Once they get sucked in, yeah, right, so I got.
Dan Costello:I was sucked in, me and my brother, a couple of my cousins. I wound up spending a good part of my time on the restaurant side early part of my career. And then, you know, as the business was growing and my uncle really, you know he was innovating on the frozen side and really started our distribution and expanding that we grew our restaurants, we grew our frozen presents and, expanding that, we grew our restaurants, we grew our frozen presence and we fast forward, you know, just steady growth throughout the years. Then, unfortunately, in 2018, he had a um. He had a massive heart attack. He was in very good shape. You know. He was a like four or five time marathon guy. You know was very fit.
Dan Costello:It was a shock to the whole company and our family that we lost him at you know, young age 62, I think he was and so at that point then the family, like our governance models, had to kick in and we had, you know, internal board and we had to elect a CEO. And that's when I became CEO in 2018. So since then, we've been, you know, really kind of keeping the same, you know, trajectory and path. We're growing our frozen side. We got. We're taking care of our restaurants, trying to, you know, become, you know, really break out of being a strong regional brand, cpg brand. We are nationwide and, you know, through the Albertson Safeway system, but we're working with retailers Walmart, publix, hebs, kroger's across the country. So that's kind of where we're at today. So I work a lot on the vision and strategy of the company with our team and continue to try to elevate and try to elevate what we're doing.
Mike Maddock:So uncomfortable. Question number one, dan. Yeah, I have a. I have another good friend who's fourth generation business and his grandfather skipped over his father to tap as a CEO and I've heard the stories of how difficult family businesses can be. Because I've heard the stories of how difficult family businesses can be because you know, on one hand you love each other, you trust each other, it's all in the family. On the other hand, you have to look across the table at Thanksgiving dinner at someone that's a little bit annoyed at something that happened at work the day before. Yeah, can you talk a little bit about the how, the pressure or how you know get you know elected as ceo in a fourth generation family business? That couldn't have been easy for you. I mean, that has to come with more pressure than, uh, than I can imagine.
Dan Costello:Tell me about that yeah, I would, and I would say probably wasn't easy for anybody, quite honestly, um, and I would say, you know, my uncle worked really hard on, uh, succession, but particularly like how the shares passed down. But the one thing that I think he he stopped short of because it became so emotional, was how do you, how do you have management succession? Yeah, um, and you, like, I would say, today we're set up better where we have an independent board with outsiders. That that would be the next round. You know, when I finish my career is that we'd probably have an independent panel helping decide that.
Dan Costello:But when you have brothers, sisters, cousins deciding who's going to be the CEO, you know, unfortunately, what happened at that time. To be, you know, one of our um, I was going head to head with one of my cousins for for the role. I mean, it was there's two people who wanted to do it, um, and then you know, the the election process was designed to a point that was good enough that we would get a vote and we knew under and understood how the vote would work, but it still pitted, pitted family members against each other and it wasn't ideal even for the people who had to cast the votes. You know it was like it was uncomfortable for me and my cousin, but it was also uncomfortable for the people had to cast the votes, and I think that would be one thing I would tell any families, like when you can get your family members? Um, when? When you can get your family members, when you can design your governance system so you don't have to be there, I would recommend I think it's a good way to look at not putting family members against each other. Because it did and what led?
Dan Costello:Shortly after, within two years, the family member that I had edged out for CEO left the business. We bought out his family. That's what they wanted. They didn't want to be part of it. It was. It was not ideal. Sounds messy? Yeah, it got messy and I think we tried to, during that time period of about two, two and a half years, say how do we make it a win, win? What do you really want? Is there any way we could work this out where you could stay? But it was just, you know, it was just there, right. It was just like no, I felt. I think he felt that I was. You know, people wanted, didn't want, me, right? That you know. I don't want to put words in what he would say he felt, but it became clear he's like I don't want to be here anymore, so and it was.
John Tobin:It wasn't't easy. Family members still in the business then, like whichever side, or or even from your own, like almost immediate family yeah, so what it was?
Dan Costello:there was three families. It was my mom, my aunt and my uncle, okay, so now my aunt's family has exited the business. So my mom's, my mom and my uncle's family, you know. So we're the kids. So in my mom's side, it's me and my oldest brother, who's on our board, are active in the business, and then we have two brothers that aren't active in the business and then on my uncle's side, and he's no longer with us, he has three kids. All three of them are active in the business, so cousins of mine. So you know this generation two active on my side and three on my cousin's side. So there's five of us. There's seven total. You know I have two brothers, like I said, that aren't active, but as shareholders they vote on certain topics and issues. We just elected a board. They voted on that. You know they would vote theoretically, like if somebody wanted to buy the company do you want to sell it? You know we have a we've prescribed where the shareholders are active and where they vote and where they're waiting tonight.
Mike Maddock:Is it? Is it difficult running a business that is both a restaurant on one side and a consumer package goods company on the other? Talk about that a little bit. It's got to be really wonky, because yeah.
Dan Costello:It is. It's you know systems and processes are different on both of these parts and we're trying to. That's where sometimes we kind of spin our wheels. You know the restaurant side and the frozen side. You know just, there's so many differences in terms of how you can scale them and how you and the people side of them are. Just, you know they're the same but they're different.
Dan Costello:Right, and when we use the restaurant side, the restaurant side for us becomes a. It's a marketing tool and branding tool. It's, you know, over the years. You know we've fed millions of people through the restaurants throughout all the decades I mean 77 decades of doing this. But you know, running them and trying to keep them, you know, healthy. It's just, it's a much more intense side of the business. I would say it feels more intense. The manufacturing side is intense in its own way and we have different issues when you're dealing with retailers. That's like customer there. So it's even funny. At least on the restaurant side we're dealing directly with our customer and on the frozen side we're trying to deal with our customer via the retailer.
Dan Costello:So there's just a different mindset for all of it.
Mike Maddock:It has to be good for like. So, from a research perspective, you know you're serving food, you can test new product, et cetera. So here's a question for you. I grew up John grew up in your neighborhood. I grew up down in the South side, glenwood, so I grew up with the Aurelio family, oh yeah, and I became aware of Aurelio's because they sponsored my little league baseball team. Yeah, and then in high school, that's where we'd go and act like we were going to meet girls. Although we never did, we were there every weekend. Were you jealous? Were you jealous when the Pope showed up all over the Aurelio's brand? I mean, come on.
Dan Costello:I really I'm a big fan of joe aurelio, so he is a um, so it's a tight community and for the most part, we're all you know whether it's mark malnati or joe aurelio, tom fox, and we. We know all these people and I'm a big fan of joe aurelio. He's always been very kind to me so I was really happy for him. I was happy that the pope is from chicago and I thought it was pretty cool that he's a Sox fan.
Mike Maddock:So, yeah, he's a Sox fan, he's and he's like totally endorsing. So okay, here, john, I'm going to give you a shot here. But what makes a good pizza, Dan? What? What? Like you got to be, um, my dad worked for Keebler, so I was so tired of eating cookies by the time I was 12. I won't ask you if you still like eating pizza, but I do want to know what makes a good pizza.
Dan Costello:Look, I think the pizzas that stand the test of time typically have something to do with their dough. They do something. We all buy the same cheese for the most. You know it's whole milk, mozzarella. You know the tomatoes are. You can add a little bit to, you can maybe have your sauce stand out, but I think when you really do a nice job, you're doing something with your dough. Uh, that the consumer might not even know what they're, what you're doing. I mean, people would always tell us oh, you guys put butter in your crust. I'm like no, we don't. But you know that's fine. Whatever you want to think it is, it's okay, you know so. But I usually think it comes down to when somebody's got something that's going really good. You can say, wow, that dough is. Whether it's my flavor profile or not, I can tell it's something that they're paying attention to and that they're doing something really nice with it.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, I'm not a connoisseur of pizza, but I will say that when I talk about good bread, I've I've said this a few times. You know, when you go to France or Italy, the bread just tastes better and it's just very simple. It doesn't feel like there's a lot in it and it tastes pure, and you've got that going on in your crust when you.
Dan Costello:Yeah, and that's from my grandpa.
Mike Maddock:He's from southern Italy.
Dan Costello:It's a very simple recipe. You know what it is. It's just he ages, we've aged it, we age it and nobody ages it on the frozen side of the business.
Mike Maddock:It totally comes through in the taste profile. Yeah.
Dan Costello:He used to do his job. You guys have a Brother.
Mike Maddock:Rice story. You want to tell, like, what makes that school so great? It obviously cranks out some really great business people.
Dan Costello:Probably would have been Coach Joe back then when John was there.
John Tobin:What sports did you play, Dan.
Dan Costello:I played football and baseball.
John Tobin:Okay.
Dan Costello:Yeah, so I mean I loved Coach Mitchell and Coach Joe Johnson. Those guys were great.
John Tobin:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dan Costello:And then I had Sadlicek for a bit. He retired my senior year. I missed him my senior year. I really liked playing for him too.
John Tobin:Their baseball program is really good. Now it's pretty.
Dan Costello:Yeah, we were fine. I mean, we were kind of. We were like a mid-level team back then. We were always a little over 500, but not like what they are now. They're just crazy good now.
John Tobin:I played soccer and so Coach Mark Kuhlman, if you remember him, Mark Kuhlman, yeah, and he was like this guy, like thick accent like this and he would take your sideburns and rip your sideburns. It's all big. It's all big. It's not the ball.
Dan Costello:It's not the ball, it's not the ball.
John Tobin:Yeah, and it was just like they'd beat you. They would basically beat you and it got it. It was fine Coach.
Dan Costello:Joe, you knew it was coming. He had this big old ring and this big old ring, and when you're in trouble he'd turn it, and you knew that he was, so he'd get the.
Mike Maddock:So bang right, that's what my dad did. Is that a notre dame thing? What's happening?
Dan Costello:I mean it was like you call your crap head and he just but he would leave like a hand mark on your wherever he hit you like?
John Tobin:oh, just rattle you so, dan, this is maybe an obvious question, but as the produce side came up and did that start, you said you were making frozen pizzas in the 50s, but as you got into more stores, was that in the 2000s, during your time or before your time? And then then, is that a much, is it? Uh, on the revenue side, which side does like a lot more revenue is more on the produce side, I'm guessing, but oh yeah, curious on that yeah, I mean, uh, okay, so a couple, I'll go with the easy part there.
Dan Costello:So they're like today. Where we stand today, 85, 90 of what we do is the frozen cpg side. That probably crossed 50, 50 in the early 90s. Okay, okay, if I were cross paths, oh, so quite a while, then okay, yeah, it's probably, you know, but it was always like, even when it crossed, it was 50, 55, 45, 55, 45, 60, 40, just kind of like. And then, and then, I think over the last, I would say since 2008, where we launched um, partnered in our distribution company, that's where the frozen side really, uh, accelerated away from the restaurant side. Um, when the frozen side to get back to the other part of your question is it really probably started in the late 80s, early 90s is when the froze.
Dan Costello:So my uncle, like we were making frozen pizzas, like in the 50s. The story it's a cool little story, it's it was um. A guy was coming in this and my grandfather he was depressionary, so he didn't like a lot of change. He was very against like. He's like, wanted one restaurant, you know, live in the back of it, you live upstairs, that's your life, that's what he wanted my uncle to do and my uncle's like I want to do a little bit more than that. But the way that the Frozen story goes is a guy came in sometime in the early summer I'm assuming like a May and he's like hey, can you make me?
Dan Costello:We used to call them snack packs. I don't know why the name of it was like a snack pack size. It was 10-inch frozen pizza or 10-inch pizza. He goes bake it halfway for me and, if you don't mind, just wrap it up. And that's like the first time.
Dan Costello:My grandpa was like why, like, why do you want a pizza? And he's like make me 10 of them. Why do you want 10 of them? Why do you want them baked halfway? Like what is that all about? And the guy goes well, I'm going up to my, my summer home in Wisconsin, and he goes on him, I got a lot, I got an icebox and this 10 inch pizza fits in an icebox back then. So he's like and I'm going to, I eat one a week. I'll be up there for like 10, 12 weeks and I love your pizza, so I'll just put it in my oven. And that was so. Our bartender was like hey, that's a pretty good idea. Yeah, on my way home there's a corner grocery store. Why don't I, why don't you guys make about 10 or 12 of these on my way home? I'll drop them off and then, on my way back to work, the following you know week I'll just do it once a week I'll pick up the money.
Dan Costello:So he was our first distributor, that's amazing again, this guy's name is frank, so that's how it started, so, but that's the 50s and 60s and that's all we did with it. And then my uncle, as he was kind of coming into you know his own leadership and he, he want, he's like, look, he liked the restaurants, but he, right away, he's like, man, if I could figure out a way this is the way he always told if I could figure out a way to make our product frozen and get it into back then jewel and dominic's right, dominic's back him, you know, and uh, he's like that would be great, that would that would be awesome. So he started really trying to figure this out in this, you know late 70s, early 80s how to do it built his first factory behind the original restaurant 1987. So, john, that's like really when the frozen business started. We're making frozen pizzas, but I think the business really started like late 80s and then he went to jewel and Dominix, which were the dominant retailers of the Chicagoland back then, and he got into both and it grew from there and it grew pretty well into the 90s. But then it was in oh man, yeah, I think I said 2008. It was earlier 2000s, like it was 2002, when we started the distribution company with a partner of ours, and that's when it really took off.
Mike Maddock:You're in 40 states now. Is that 40 plus? We're in all?
Dan Costello:50.
Mike Maddock:Oh, wow Just with Albertson Safeway.
Dan Costello:Yeah. And then you know Walmart. Their distribution points are a little hard. Yeah, we're probably in about 20, 25 states with them, and Kroger, we're predominantly Midwest, you know. So Is it a?
John Tobin:little bit more difficult to work with, maybe Walmart or Costco or like kind of those specific big chains, versus something like an Albertsons, or are they? They're all kind of tricky, I would guess they're all.
Dan Costello:Yeah, they're all tricky in their own right, like I mean there's parts of Walmart I really appreciate. I mean it's just, they're very, they're all tricky in their own right, like I mean, there's parts of walmart I really appreciate. I mean it's just, they're very. It's very clean and simple. You know where you stand right, and so here's our best price. So I think when you hear the stories like walmart puts people out of business, I was like, well, you know, it's like if you don't, if you don't have a handle on your margins, you can't. I mean that's, it's really. I think it's always more on on you than than them, but I I can appreciate it.
Dan Costello:It's a lot easier for me to understand my P and L with Walmart than it is for some of these other retailers, because of all the charges and all the fees and all the deductions and it's like um, but Albertsons has been pretty good to work with.
Dan Costello:But I would say is, as they consolidate Albertsons is consolidating banners and Kroger It'sger that's a little bit worrisome, like I know we probably all when Kroger was talking about buying Albertsons we didn't feel like that was going to be a good thing for the industry. And again, I'm a few credits short of my economics degree, but I think I'm glad it didn't work out.
John Tobin:It is an interesting part of business that there's so much consolidation. That happens. There's a lot going on. You're right, if there's too big of almost a monopoly, that's just tricky.
Dan Costello:I mean it really would be then like there'd be like two retailers in the country, it's like it'smart and whatever that new entity would be, and then you got some smaller regionals. But they keep keeping. Got now somebody like publics, we like working with um. Yeah, I don't see them going.
Mike Maddock:I mean they're, they're really strong grocery brand, um, so that, yeah, I have all got their things you know, we have a mutual friend all of us and rand, stagan and rand once said uh, you, a good friend, stabs you in the front, Mike, and he was talking about how people that said that about Walmart. He's like you know all these other guys, I don't know what they're doing. They're sending stuff back. They're taking discounts. I don't know what the rules are. Walmart tells you what you need to do and then they do it Like it's. It's just, they're very straight shooters.
Mike Maddock:Hey, you know, uh, Dan, you are in a flourish forum and you you can sit in the rainmaker or orchestrator seat. I want to talk about the orchestrator seat and you in particular. I think I know what your superhero power is, but you have this tremendous ability to empathize with all kinds of people. You're kind of the glue in a group. You kind of hear and see everyone and bring ideas together. How did that serve you during COVID? Like you're, you're leading a company and the wheels fall off. Tell me about how you led during COVID and or if there are any lessons that you came away with.
Dan Costello:Yeah, I think where that probably helped the most at that time is like a lot of our workforce is a blue mindset, traditional blue collar workforce. You know if we're going to go with the worldviews from our stagan training, yeah, and you know, there there's a lot of fear and I think one of the things I've always been able to do my uncle always would tell me this too it's like I can, you know, I can talk, I can at least sit with somebody and not put them not, I can disarm, generally disarm situations. So I was able to communicate pretty well during that time where I had to go to the shop floor, the manufacturing floor, the restaurant side. I'm just like guys, here's the deal. I don't know everything that's going on right now. I don't know if this, I don't know if this FedEx box that just got delivered here has COVID on it. I mean, they're telling us that maybe it lives on. I don't know.
Dan Costello:This is what I do know is like fortunately for us, I think the grocery business exploded and we were busy and we need pizzas and we have work and we're going to do everything we can do and study this thing, and we're going to do everything we can do and study this thing every way we can to understand how to keep people safe. And if you just give us a little bit of trust and a little bit of grace that we don't know everything, we'll tell you as we learn we will tell you everything that we know. So we didn't try to hide anything, we didn't try to protect anything and I think our people what the result was, they trusted us and you know, for the most part we got through it, you know, and it was as it was. It was really hard. I mean we. I mean we.
Dan Costello:We could have ran seven days a week. I remember there was like it was. It was, I think we had a week before Easter, whatever the year was right now. I was like, oh my gosh, I had only four forklift drivers in the whole. I only had four people in the company that could drive a forklift.
Dan Costello:Three of them had COVID and I was like my God, we're going to, we're going to be, we're going to have to shut the factory down if this guy gets one guy gets COVID, because we can't move product around, we can't move raw materials around the facility. I'm like I never thought about that. But you know, I'm kind of going on a tangent there, but it was a lot about Liz. I was talking to people, trying to keep people safe, asking them to trust us, telling them we didn't know everything. Honestly, I have no idea. I'm like I'm just hopeful and you know. But we were busy and we invested more money too. I mean we said, look, we want, like this is the time for us to, for everybody to, you know, we, we want you guys to make more money. So we did, you know, bonus pays and values pay.
Dan Costello:But I think a lot of it was really around communication. It's like someone told me once I'm trying to the guy he's uh, in the barbecue, he's like he. We've all heard sayings like this. It's like, whether you're communicating or not, you are right, you're just so. If you choose not to communicate, you're communicating. If you choose not to say something, you're communicating, you know. So it's like. So I think we took that to heart and like there's to over-communicate was the way we kind of approached it and I think then my personality allows me to I could talk to somebody. It's such a huge nugget.
Mike Maddock:I mean, like John, this has to resonate with you because the whole leadership. As a young person I thought I needed to have the answers. Sometimes the best answer is I don't know what's going to happen, because people they read that as like that you're being so honest and thank God, at least you're telling me what's going on, and then they're willing to stand up and go. Okay, let me try to help. Maybe I can help you figure it out. John, does that resonate with you?
John Tobin:yeah, no, completely, and I was just thinking you, you, just you do come across, dan, like just super authentic and and the vulnerability to be able to say I don't know, and you know, hang in there and just empathize with people. It's it, it comes across, even within this conversation.
Mike Maddock:So there's a little bit of that Midwest thing I think.
John Tobin:Yeah Me too, yeah you gotta be, honest and always try to do the right thing and, um, so yeah, the very values based uh, you, you know it, it it makes a big difference in people's lives, honestly, and that's almost a family, a family like atmosphere I can imagine. Um, that's yeah, If you I mean you almost are exuding the family business, but extended, extended family in a way.
Dan Costello:I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you.
Mike Maddock:Did you have a leader that you look up to, dan, like someone that that is a mentor for you?
Dan Costello:um, I mean your husband I mean, I guess, but yeah, I mean, I think I mean he did a lot of really good things, you know, and I think a lot of that was the way that he would also have approached it if he was with us, um, and then I think, outside of our organization, I don't, you know, I try to go through the staging program, get exposed to a lot of ideas and principles and concepts and a lot of philosophy, and I've there's probably been all bits and pieces I've tried to take from lots of different leaders, some known, some unknown. Um, I, I mean, I think one guy that I like to study is just think about the really difficult choices he probably had. It was like a Winston Churchill type. Yeah, awesome, I loved reading about him.
Dan Costello:I mean, I'm sure he made a lot of enemies, I know that, but I'm like I think some of the things he had to do, I was just like, oh man, that's like a really hard choice to make, right there and some really difficult things, and whether they're right or wrong, I I'm just trying like I I look at somebody like that and be like I'd rather make. It's about not being stuck right. You get to these points and the the decisions that I have to make, thankfully aren't of that type of scale, you know. So every time I get like man, this seems like a really tough decision about this and it's like, yeah, in the grand scheme of the world, no.
Mike Maddock:He had some real stones and he started drinking like with his coffee in the morning. And what a great. He's so quotable yeah.
Mike Maddock:It's just like so talk about legacy, dan. No, let's talk about Chicago. So you are a tavern style. Quote pizza from Chicago. First, tell me why Chicago pizza is better than New York pizza and then explain how you're going to as you're now in 50 states and eventually international, I'm sure how do you maintain or what do you own about Chicago and how do you hold on to that as you scale from you know, a thousand CPG outlets to 20,000 to a hundred thousand? How do you, how do you do that?
Dan Costello:Yeah, I mean, we talk a lot about what are the, what are the things about our brand that you know that are what makes us different. You know, what are the things that we can claim that others can't? What are the things that we can do that others can't do or won't do? And I mean, one of the things we can, we can honestly claim we've been here in Chicago, which is Chicago is the, you know, pizza capital country.
Dan Costello:I mean, I know New York probably doesn't agree with that, but you know we're seven decades plus here doing this over and over and over. I mean, I think that's something that we use that more and more. You'll see us use that as we especially as we move out, and we really try to, you know, build in other regions across the country. It's like you know. You know that credibility and authenticity, you know it's time tested country. It's like you know being. You know that credibility and authenticity, you know it's time tested, it's um, you know people that are that know their pizza, the chicagoans, they know they. They're trusting us. It's like so it gives us some, gives us some play to use to say you know, trust us too, try us, you know, because we really believe on the frozen side, once somebody tries us, you can. There, we really believe on the frozen side, once somebody tries us, you can.
Dan Costello:There's a distinct difference between our frozen product and the folks that we're competing with and what we can say. You know, what we'd like to tell people is like we're actually made it. We were created in a kitchen, born in a kitchen, not an r? D lab. You know which? The majority of what we're competing with on the frozen side? The majority, not all, they're all just research and development labs and majority not all, they're all just research and development labs and they're taking, they're, they're trying to manufacture, cost out or, you know, construct something where we're like, yeah, we're just trying to do what. What are what has been done for the past 80 years, you know?
Mike Maddock:do you, um, if you were going to talk to a founder that was trying to scale across a couple different types of businesses so you've got restaurant and CPG Is there a tool that you rely on, like some kind of framework or something that you is your go-to when you're trying to think strategically about the businesses?
Dan Costello:Oh yeah, I mean, we use tools. There are tools. I'm wondering which one. I would say you know, I think you're getting clear. Honestly, if there's a simple question, I guess I would start with somebody that could then lead to a tool to help you. It's like what do you do that others can't or won't do?
Mike Maddock:Yeah.
Dan Costello:I mean, if you, if you can identify that, then I would say you know then the systems and processes. You know whether you use like attraction or like there's, there's strategic tools, for I I've always been cause, you know, I've liked um scaling up and you know all, there's all the tools within a product like that. But I said it, but fundamentally, if you, if hopefully you can answer that question, if you can answer that question, what do you do that others can't or won't do, then I think you got something that you can think you can grow and scale. All right.
John Tobin:So it sounds like partnerships is a big thing within your industry in particular, and so finding those good partnerships, like you did with the distributor, that seems like a big key for scaling. Is that? Am I reading that right?
Dan Costello:That was. I mean, I think you know, because then you have stuff, then you have, like what can you do that other can't? You still then have to figure out the tactical things that unlock things, then have to figure out the the tactical things that unlock things. And you know, for us, the distribution side of things and getting your product, especially in chicago, because you know, um, it was very important because that was all about the shelf space. You know, if I boil that down, it's like how do you get? You know, how do I get?
Dan Costello:As a local brand, there's two facings of Homer and Inn and there's 12 facings of DiGiorno. Well, how do I get to 12? Well, the only way to do that then was you got to get, you got to do your own distribution. If you don't do your own distribution, the retailers aren't going to do it for you. So, yeah, then that became something like, you know, within the context of what we're trying to do, like all right, we got to figure out how to do that, yeah that's huge, yeah, so a lot of one of the things that we ask each of our guests is about decision making.
John Tobin:We were talking about decision making and you know tough decisions. If you think of it that way, can you, can you share a story and it could be went as a ceo, but it could be before that where you were responsible to make a key decision, and then can you walk us through a little bit of the scenario and then how you, how you came up with that decision or who you maybe asked advice around that decision and how did that all kind of go down? Basically, okay.
Dan Costello:Well, I would say the majority of the tough decisions I've had to make I'm gonna probably say it's a hundred percent of time I we've. We've laid out four values of the company family, pride, grit and courage. And then we've defined them. So family means that we're all in, you know, busy. What we did learn in this is, I could say, family, and that might mean something different to everybody, but then family means all in. So what does that mean? Well, that means you got to show up. And what does that mean? Well, it's like when your restaurant side or frozen side, like if you're on a schedule but you don't show up, you leave it, you leave your family in the lurch, right, so that's a really tough thing.
Dan Costello:Pride is um high standards. So when, well, what does that mean? It's like, well, we're setting kpis and we're setting goals. We're not gonna. We'd rather aim high and miss than aim low and hit right. So we have to have the pride and the courage to actually, you know, think that was one family.
Dan Costello:Pride, grit, courage, courage is we got to do hard things, we have to have tough conversations, we have to clear issues, we have to be willing to, you know, seek higher standards. And grit. We got to learn, got to constantly learn. If we're not investing in education and learning, then you know, learning something that's meaningful is not easy, you know. So you got to grit through it. So I would say, john, in any decision that I've had to make that was difficult, whether it was we've had to close locations or we had to even part with a shareholder, with a third of our shareholder base yes, always able to go to the values and say, all right, how do I do this? So you know, I think a tough decision, like you know, taking out a loan to help exit, I mean and I would say it like that to help exit somebody who didn't want to be here, because my thought was at this point is, if we can't be aligned at the top, yeah nothing, nothing good will go over the next several years, and there was a lot of debate about this is like you're gonna take out dead money. That's not creating an asset, you know, to exit somebody. But I'm like it's that important that if we can't have alignment at the top, I really felt like that would prevent us from growth and I think, within that, relying on the values to have the courage to kind of step into it with my cousin and have the. It's like, if this isn't gonna work, then how do we do this?
Dan Costello:Studying the equation it was very valuable and then also having grace around it, you know, like doing it where it was. You know where it was a as healthy of a transaction it could be for both parties. Yeah, I mean, I think that was one of the most difficult decisions I had to make, obviously, and I think a couple of other ones were also. You there's, I think that was an example One.
Dan Costello:I think another the other ones that I think kind of have always weighed on me is like it's probably typical I think this is probably fairly typical in family businesses is when you have a certain person who's been in a role for you for a long time and then you're starting to get to the point where the company's starting to ask, elevate, askly, and then it's like, oh boy, this individual, now the role and what we need from that role, is different than what we needed. Yeah, what do you do? You know it's like, do you leave the person in there and not do anything, which is what our habit would have been or do you have the courage and, because you have to elevate. Like you know, this is all about seeking potential. So if the person now is starting to hit a ceiling, how do you handle that?
Dan Costello:Those have been probably some of the more difficult ones that I've dealt with, because that was a departure, I would say, from the way my uncle yeah and led. So then it's like then I'm feeling like people are gonna look at me like I'm, but I've, but we had to do it because we're getting. That's a really tough one, I think, because now we're talking about a person, a human being, that has been with us for 10, 15, 20 years, but they have definitely bumped up against the ceiling that we need of, you know, of uh, so we, you know, they're just not the. The seat has outgrown them and I'll pace them now. So now, anytime I've had to have those conversations, I would start with courage. I'm like I got to be a courageous. I can't be the person to sit back and just say I want to ignore that, I want to turn a blind eye to that.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, you have to. As a leader, you have to make decisions for the good of the whole, and I suspect that your fifth value that you didn't mention is loyalty. So when you have a or some, it's in the top 10 I know it is and so when you're trying to make a decision that's competing with another value on the list, that makes it much more difficult.
Dan Costello:Yeah there's polarities to these things. Yeah, it's like, oh boy, and we've had, unfortunately, I've had about four or five of these where it's like this person, you look at their career and what they did for us, but now we're at a point where we gotta, we gotta do something. So we've been able to. I think, the more you do it too, that sometimes the you know you can you improve and you also like we all, and we try to look at it like all right, from the family we're all in, and how do we make this a win-win? But how do we also, you know, seek a higher, higher ground on this as well?
Mike Maddock:Every, every leader who's has a heart is resonating with what you're saying, dan. So thank you for that. All right, john. Do I have your permission to give some rapid fire questions? Go for it, all right. So, dan, I'm going to ask you quick questions, don't think too hard, just ready to go Ready. I've got nine or ten of them, all right. So what's one decision you'd make faster if you could go back and do it again?
Dan Costello:Changing out my old CFO.
Mike Maddock:Great. Which leadership lesson did you learn the hard way, but wouldn't trade it for anything.
Dan Costello:Doesn't matter who makes the decision. As long as we get it done, that's good.
John Tobin:Make a decision. Don't not make a decision, basically.
Dan Costello:Don't worry about credit, I guess is the way.
John Tobin:I would say yeah, yeah.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, that's really interesting. When okay, I won't ask for more details I said these are rapid fire. What's the best piece of advice you've ever ignored? Gosh, I don't push that button, don't touch that don't grow your overhead too quickly.
Dan Costello:I could explain. Yeah, I could explain quickly. Oh, that's interesting. I could explain it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good.
Mike Maddock:That's a good follow-up question for people. If you want. That feels like a painful lesson.
Dan Costello:I mean there's content there. I'd have to explain a little bit more.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, here's one. If Home Run Inn wasn't pizza, what other business would you want to run Coffee? Yeah, I thought you'd go with baseball, all right.
Dan Costello:Coffee or scotch? I can't really answer that Nice.
Mike Maddock:What if?
Dan Costello:I was a distiller. That'd be fun, I think.
Mike Maddock:I think I sense a thread in the leaders you want to study and the businesses you want to run. What book has changed the way you lead?
Dan Costello:Hard thing about hard things.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, that's a good one. What one habit that makes you a better CEO Journaling. One habit that makes you a better dad Journaling. One habit that makes you a better friend Let me guess.
Dan Costello:How long?
Mike Maddock:have you been journaling, Dan?
Dan Costello:Ever since I started staying. So what does that mean? Performance journals they help me a tremendous amount awesome.
John Tobin:Do you still do it like every week or on, like what's your cadence?
Dan Costello:I usually do in my weekly, focusing yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would say, maybe on top of that is reading more. I read more now, I read every day now, so I would maybe, as a better dad or friend, even like just reading more, like studying people or philosophies, I think, between writing and reading. I think those are things that have helped me.
Mike Maddock:A belief about business you hold that most people would disagree with. I don't know.
Dan Costello:I don't know. I don't know if people would disagree with it. There's a way to put people first and be really successful.
Mike Maddock:I don't know if people would disagree with it. I think there would be some business leaders that would disagree with that for sure. If you could have dinner with one business leader, past or present, who would it be and why?
Dan Costello:um, hmm, you know, probably, just maybe is it recency and I was just listening to a podcast. Howard schultz, yeah, you're on the coffee you're on a coffee but hey, just some of the oh my gosh, gosh. What a great story right? I think he'd be fun to have dinner with.
Mike Maddock:John, you're in Seattle, you can hook him up right.
John Tobin:Yeah, absolutely yeah. I've met him a couple times, I remember I was interviewing him.
Dan Costello:Would I enjoy my dinner with him, john, would that be it?
John Tobin:I don't. If you can get a word in edgewise, okay, yeah, okay I will. I will say that there is like a cult like following at Starbucks about Starbucks, about coffee, about Howard Schultz. It's kind of interesting. I, just before I started slalom, I was interviewing to be the director of architecture and report to the CIO, and he, when I met the CIO, he gave me Howard's book, pull your Heart Into it, yeah, and he's like, yeah, you need to read this. And before you meet everybody like, and that was like in two days, it was, it is a good story, though I'd have to.
Mike Maddock:I have to say it's pretty quick, easy read, but his, that story is pretty amazing I think it's hard to be a leader like howard schultz, um, and not have it, you know, be overly caffeinated. I mean that guy probably gets fed in every meeting about what an amazing difference he's made.
Dan Costello:I might think about that. It might change it too. Well, I hope you're happy John.
Mike Maddock:You talked him out of it.
Dan Costello:No, it popped in my head.
Mike Maddock:All right. What's the boldest idea you've said yes to? That terrified you. The boldest idea that you've ever said yes to that terrified you. The boldest idea that you've ever said yes to that terrified you.
Dan Costello:Oh, I guess. I mean I think I was pretty scared when I said it. I looked at all the numbers. We can afford to exit a third of our family. Yeah, I was like oh shit, dan, do you know exit a third of our family.
Mike Maddock:yeah, I was like oh shit, you know dan, you know how many friends I had that actually studied law practice for like a year and then said I cannot do this with my life, and so I think probably a pretty good decision based on the look back that your uh, your uncle said come on come help me out man, I do, I do.
Dan Costello:I didn't know what I wanted to do and then you know so my uncle just kind of pulled me in, he's like. So you know it worked out.
Mike Maddock:Did you learn how to drive a forklift? You feel like the kind of guy that worked?
Dan Costello:No, I didn't. Maybe I should have.
Mike Maddock:Okay. Last question you know legacy. It's 50 years from now. Home Runnin' Pete's Now Homer and Pete is 50 years older. I don't want to hear what the legacy of Homer is. I want what do you want people to have said about you as a leader 50 years from now?
Dan Costello:Oh yeah, I don't like. First of all, I want to be man. He was a great dad, great husband. I mean those are my like I, the business is like what I do, but there's not like that. These are the people in my life's like why I live, right, so but I would hope that people would just, you know that would recognize that I mean I work as hard on that as I do on being a leader, you know.
Dan Costello:So in for anybody that's worked for me or us, that I hope they would also say that we found a home like someplace, that we because this world is so crazy, right, you know, like and there's, and I've been able to hire people from the outside and I hear some of the stories, what they, they've dealt with at some of these other companies. I'm like, wow, that just sounds like a. I want people to like, feel, I want people to say like, working in that company under that leadership was we could, it was a place we could call home. It was a place where we could, you know, raise our families, a place we could be safe, a place we could trust, whatever the words are for them. So I would hope that would resonate, you know, when I'm not around. It was just a good place to be right. It was a place where we could be together and, you know, where people could fulfill their own potentials at some level.
John Tobin:right, so it's awesome, I have to say, like the way you speak and talk about your business, your family, your life. It is just. It exudes a great leader. It does.
Dan Costello:I appreciate it.
John Tobin:One other thing. I mean you obviously really got into Stegen, like that meant a lot to you, I think, because you're still journaling. How did you get to Stegen? Did you like, did you guys know each other before? Or because it's not?
Dan Costello:Well, I knew.
Mike Maddock:I don't think I knew Mike was at Stegen until after I'd been at stegan for a couple of years honestly, I think it was like I like ran into you wait you're.
Dan Costello:He never would have. He never would have gone through the program if he heard I was a result of it.
Dan Costello:No, you know what, uh so chuck hall is in my ypo forum group and you know, honestly, it was like going back. I've been with him for 15 years and he would like, you know, use, like certain things well, let's desired outcome, what's your desired outcome? And like he just had like what I would say like tools or system, like chuck, what are these things? You keep throwing this out and you're talking about this and like what's this story in the head thing? And and then he starts showing me the worksheets and I'm like, oh, this is all pretty good. Um, and I think what happened then?
Dan Costello:You know, I hit a rough patch. It worked, you know, not everything was great with me and my uncle and the family business and family members, and it was. So what am I? When I was about 40 years old, I was almost left the business and it was my John Drury experience came up. Then, mike, you know, like you know, you know I had to reach out to somebody that had met through the YPO network and I worked with this John Drury for six months, because there's really the way I was, you know, a lot of it was where I was reacting to things that were happening and what I kind of put two and two together was what John was preaching was a was a lot of.
Dan Costello:It coincided so much with the way Chuck was going about his like how Chuck would show up to forum or how Chuck would show up to things in his business. And that's when I was like, hey, chuck, tell me about this again. Where'd you get all this stuff? Because this John Drie guys telling me about sounds really similar different words but same principles. And then chuck's like it's his staying in program, man, you gotta. And so then I was like I did the work with jury and I'm like I want more of this, because I started figuring out I was starting to have better impacts with the way I was, you know, showing up to work and honestly at home with my wife and my kids. So that, yes, led me down that path and I didn't ever want to go back.
John Tobin:I didn't ever want to not be yeah.
Mike Maddock:That's very good for people listening.
John Tobin:You're 40 years old and you're kind of stuck in a rut and you could be that victim and you figured out a way to kind of rise above it and change your mindset.
Dan Costello:Frankly, it's yeah, the, the family business could be crushing it in some levels. I mean it was, it was smothering me, my wife, my family life. I mean it was, it was tough, it was tough the um.
Mike Maddock:For people who are listening, wondering what we're talking about. Uh, stagan ran. Stagan has a company out of Dallas called the Stagen Integral Leadership Program, which is a program where, if you're looking to rise up in leadership, it's really amazing. He's done a great job and it's a community of curious leaders who are trying to make themselves better. It is referral only, so if you're listening to this, hit up any one of us and ask for a referral. And so Chuck and I went through it together. Chuck Hall was an incredible leader because Rick Sapio God rest his soul had approached both of us and said you should do this and we believed him. So we did.
Mike Maddock:And John Drury, who Dan also mentioned, is a wonderful. He, john, used to own an ad agency in Miami. He sold it and started coaching and has worked with Dan and me and our you know number of leaders that we really respect, helping us think about life better. He's a great coach. So it's such a small world. When you start thinking about the interconnectivity, you know it's just. You know, show me your friends and I will show you your future. Coach John Wooden. So, dan, thank you for showing up. And thank you, coach john wooden. So dan, thank you for showing up and thank you you uh answered every question that we asked with such uh humility and transparency, so thank you for that too. You didn't you didn't dodge or a couple questions. I was a little uncomfortable asking you, but, um, thank you, you're really living your values.
John Tobin:It's super clear.
Mike Maddock:Thank you, john love it I want to encourage you to brother rice guys to get up, get together outside this podcast, I think it would make a difference when I'm back in chicago at some point that'd be great.
Dan Costello:Well, you know, and you're in seattle yeah so my dad's from seattle, so I grew up my summers were in seattle, so I love the pikes plates market there and yeah you know, I actually got the kids out there yeah, I got the kids out there last summer because I'm like you know, I I gotta get them out to mount rainier because that's what we did. My dad's a teacher, so we'd spend a month every.
Mike Maddock:I spent a lot of time in seattle where did you, where was your dad from, specifically in the seattle area uh, it's it, I think, the Laurelhurst area, laurelhurst.
John Tobin:Yeah, yeah, it's kind of over there.
Dan Costello:I mean my grandma. I don't know what the actual neighborhood was, she wasn't in Laurelhurst, but all I know is she had friends in Laurelhurst and they would take us there to go swimming. So yeah, in the lake.
Mike Maddock:I share that in common. We did summers in seattle too, dan. So there you go, all right. Well, thank you, dan. So much for uh, great for creating such a good pizza. Oh, one last story. Last night I was telling my youngest son, cody, that we get we were going to be talking today he goes oh, I love it. Has a home running pizza, has such a spot in my heart. And I go why is? Why is that he goes? Because every day at Ben or, excuse me, every Friday at Ben Franklin, we had a slice of home run in pizza until the fifth grade and he has like political views about the fact that he couldn't have home run pizza after the fifth grade.
Mike Maddock:It was hysterical. He goes. That's why I love home run in pizza.
Dan Costello:So work on him, get into leadership, man Making me hungry.
Mike Maddock:Me too, Dan. Thank you so much. I look forward to seeing you soon.
John Tobin:Thank you Dan.
