Your Seat at the Table - Real Conversations on Leadership and Growth
Join hosts Mike Maddock and John Tobin as they delve into authentic stories of leadership, decision-making under pressure, and the invaluable lessons learned along the way. Each episode offers candid conversations with seasoned leaders, exploring the challenges faced, the triumphs celebrated, and the insights gained from real-world experiences. Whether you’re an aspiring leader or a seasoned executive, pull up a chair and find your seat at the table.
Your Seat at the Table - Real Conversations on Leadership and Growth
Leadership Lessons from the Financial Frontlines with Tom Casey
Financial leadership isn't just about managing numbers—it's about navigating uncertainty and building resilience. In this candid conversation, Tom Casey draws from his remarkable journey as CFO at institutions including GE Capital, Washington Mutual, Clear Channel, and Lending Club to reveal what truly matters when steering organizations through transformation and crisis.
Casey shares how his blue-collar upbringing instilled the relentless work ethic that became his professional signature. "No one's going to outwork me," he states, explaining how grit propelled him from humble beginnings to executive leadership. His evolution from an intense young professional who could "wear people out" to a strategic leader who builds high-performing teams offers powerful lessons in self-awareness and adaptation.
At the heart of Casey's approach is what he calls the "competency wheel"—the expanding set of skills that exceptional CFOs develop throughout their careers. Early-career financial leaders might master only a quarter of these competencies, while seasoned executives learn to excel across the spectrum from technical accounting to strategic risk management. For companies seeking financial leadership, Casey emphasizes matching specific competencies to current business needs rather than expecting universal expertise.
The relationship between financial leaders and their organizations takes center stage as Casey compares effective finance teams to a race car's braking system. "Why does a race car have big brakes? So it can go fast," he explains, challenging the notion that financial conservatism inherently restricts growth. For anyone ready to challenge their comfort zone, this perspective reframes robust financial controls as tools for confident acceleration—enabling leaders to speed ahead while retaining the ability to adjust course when necessary. In this light, the finance function is no longer the department of "no," but the enabler of strategic acceleration.
Whether you're leading through uncertainty, building financial leadership capabilities, or seeking to strengthen decision-making processes, Casey's framework provides invaluable guidance for navigating today's complex business landscape with confidence and clarity. Real leaders. Real stories. Real action. This is more than theory—it's practical advice for those determined to make an impact.
🎙️ Enjoyed this conversation?
Subscribe to Your Seat at the Table for more candid discussions on leadership, growth, and the real stories behind the decisions that shape great organizations.
💬 We'd love to hear from you! Share your thoughts in the comments — or let us know what topics you'd like us to explore next.
👉 Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@YourSeatatTheTablePodcast
👉 Listen on Apple Podcasts & Spotify: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1826002539
https://open.spotify.com/show/0fDDb1gvrvsttm4nInRL8Y
👉 Connect with us:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gmichaelmaddock/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-tobin-a54225/
https://flourishadvisoryboards.com/
https://www.mike-maddock.com/
Pull up a chair. There’s always room for your seat at the table.
One of the things that I have learned as I go to other companies the ability to really spend time and energy forecasting your business, understanding what you're in control of, what you're not in control of, what kind of risks are you taking, what can go wrong and being intense and have an intensity around that to really have the rigor to understand the risks that you are taking and the profile of the company, the risks that you are taking and the profile of the company.
Tom Casey:You know that requires a lot of financial acumen and a lot of candor and, and frankly, a lot of confidence to say, look, I don't know what could happen, but this could happen. So it's a, it's a. It's a time of year where you kind of have to have to at least go through that so that you're not surprised. So things do go sideways If the wind shifts. You have a plan or a thought process of what needs to be done to make the corrections you need. And sometimes it's not fun work, frankly, but in the financial services world it's critical that you and the team, the executive team, understands where battle stations are.
Mike Maddock:Welcome to the your Seat at the Table podcast with your hosts Idea Monkey Mike Maddock and Ringleader John Tobin. We're two founders a serial entrepreneur and a billion-dollar operator who talk to leaders about how, when and why they made their most pivotal decisions in life. Join us as we share wisdom, mistakes and a few laughs, learning from the brightest minds in business today.
John Tobin:Welcome to your Seat at the Table Today. I am thrilled by having a friend and a person I really respect from a business perspective, tom Casey. Tom has been a serial CFO with a number of organizations and, tom, as I think about that like how many different companies you've been with in different roles and different capacities and just big names that are out there which we'll get into I always like hearing kind of people's origin stories and how they started. You know how did you get into were you a CPA and then knew you were going to try to go down that CFO path or like how did that manifest itself? And maybe just talk about the early days of starting your career.
Tom Casey:Yeah, well, guys, going back a ways now. But, uh, you know I, I wasn't even gonna go to go to college. And so when I found myself in this small little you know uh Catholic College in Northeast Pennsylvania, um, they said, hey, why don't you become an accountant? I said, hey, what can I do if I do that? And they showed me this yellow brick road and I said, okay, I'll take that route. And uh, and before you know what, I was in new york city with cooperson library and becoming a cpa and really started my career there. Um, from there I just never knew where it would go. Uh, really just kind of was absorbing a lot of different things at a young age and and then I spent a decade at ge capital. So 10 years at GE Capital really teach me a lot about how to be a senior leader and a finance professional. And then took a number of other jobs we can talk about, but that was my early early days in my career. And then took on a number of challenging assignments throughout the rest of my career.
John Tobin:What was that like at GE? They have an infamous historical way of building people, moving people around, running Tons of executives basically were churned from GE. Can you talk a little bit about that? What that was like? Yeah, I'm just curious, curious where you exactly started and then what was that kind of the coolest role that you ended up getting into?
Tom Casey:well you know the history of ge finance was a lot of folks coming through what they call the financial issue program. I was actually kind of an experienced hire. I came in from public accounting. So right, this is back in in the early 90s, the proliferation of accounting changes in the financial services world, and so they needed some outside folks. But I came into this environment where finance was a strategic partner. The more you do, the more they gave you to do.
Tom Casey:The company was growing at an exceptional rate, and so opportunities were endless, and I always felt that as soon as I had a capacity to do more, that there was another opportunity to take on. So it was one of those. The waves are always hitting you in the face as opposed to you actually trying to to destabilize your environment. You're always new opportunities, and that that was kind of an exciting time when you're. That was in my third in my thirties, 30s at the time, and and the environment was high growth, really challenging, and and then they supplemented that with a lot of training. A lot of you know on the job training, but also you know working with some incredible leaders and as well as you know coursework. That became important for me to to to grow do you think?
Mike Maddock:go ahead, mike yeah, so I I've done some work with GEG Capital. I have some friends that work there. It was one of the more innovative parts of GE, wasn't it? Like you were doing things with finance, I would argue that GE, the mothership, was not innovating, while GE Capital was really doing some creative things. Can you talk about that?
Tom Casey:Yeah, well, at the time, the financial services was going through multiple changes. You'd just come out of the financial savings and loans crisis and GE was playing the part of a bank, but not a bank. It was a competitive advantage for these financial services businesses. I think the entrepreneurial spirit was really. What was key is you know, we had 26 businesses inside of GE Capital that were run as entrepreneurs, and I think that was the exciting part is we all had our own markets and we were, in a lot of cases, we overlapped, but that competitive spirit and market share gains and global expansion were all the things that were exciting. And being in finance in that type of a company, the way GE used their finance teams was really a conduit to drive a lot of these types of initiatives. It could be Six Sigma, international expansion, market penetration, so forth. So it was an exciting time for a young professional All right.
Mike Maddock:So here's a curveball. So you've been in the C-suite at GE Capital Washington Mutual Clear Channel Lending Club. Cryptocurrency bull or bear.
Tom Casey:I'm a bit of a bear. I think there's a lot of new things coming out, the recent. I think there's a lot of new things coming out. The recent stable coins that have come out. I mean, this is like you thought deposits were cheap. Well, stable coins are cheaper. Right, there's no interest that people are earning on that money, so that's actually the cheapest form of deposit I've seen. So different parts of crypto could be interesting, but I'm not a speculator on stable coin. You know on the uh, you know Bitcoin, for example.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, got it.
Tom Casey:Thank you I see a lot of uses for it. I mean, I do see, if you're trying to move money around the world, this is definitely a high use. But as far as a speculative uh currency, you know, I just don't, I just don't see it, I've got, so you're bearish on russian drug lords.
Mike Maddock:Is that what you're saying?
Tom Casey:well, I'm bear, I'm actually bullish for them actually, but yeah, but uh, but not on the, not on the, not on the crypto awesome hey, tom, were you you?
John Tobin:you grew up in the east coast, were you? Did you have a big family? I I? I don't remember that yeah, no and I. When I'm going with that. Were there anything, things that you learned almost leading into college that you reflect on as a leader? That like? Well, I kind of learned that as a kid or learned that within my family. I'm just I love looking at that from a family dynamic and how that plays into being a leader.
Tom Casey:Yeah, well know I, I, my dad, was a truck driver, mom was a secretary, so blue collar kid, um. And then you know the transition into a white collar professional services like that's a pretty, pretty big transition and that happened, you know, within six years, going from 18 years old to to early 20s. That was probably the biggest single change for me. I mean I think you know just understanding the transition and going through it myself without any you know prior, you know parents or even family that have gone through that type of transition before. So it was a big, big change for me and you know one that you know hard work and you know and you're willing to do anything, get the job done. You know, as I call it completed staff work. You know get, get shit done, and that kind of was always focused on execution and and taking on the next challenge.
Mike Maddock:Are you? Are you? I'm going to assume if I, if you had to pick one, grit or quit, you'd be more grit than quit, True?
Tom Casey:Totally. Yeah, no one's going to outwork work me. You know it's kind of like. You know I was never the smartest guy in the room, uh, but uh, you know I'd always put the hours in to get to get stuff done so how is that so?
Mike Maddock:uh, uh, same, and and I'm wondering how that has manifested, uh, in in good ways and bad ways in your life yeah, well, you know I can wear people out right.
Tom Casey:You know so, early on in my career, you know, with a lot of intensity, a lot of desire to move forward and and excel, and and and, uh, and continue to progress my career. And you know, early on it was a. It was, you know, challenging to kind of uh, you know, working for me, me could be challenging, right, the intensity was quite high. But I think, you know, as I learned and became more confident and understand what I was bringing to the table, it became more and more, you know, people I think were starting to attract to work for me because I was going to push them into new areas and give them opportunities. So I think that's the way I think about it. Have you ever gotten feedback around that Like?
John Tobin:you were almost too intense to do area and give them opportunities. So I think that's the way I think about it. Have you ever gotten feedback around that Like it was? You were almost too intense.
Tom Casey:Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
Mike Maddock:Any swear words or feedback.
Tom Casey:Absolutely absolutely. You know, when I was at GE, you know it wasn't just a straight line. You know we were going through a lot of M&A. We were going through a lot of M&A, we were going through a lot of transformations, we were bringing companies together Within GE. It was challenging times and the intensity was quite high because execution that's how you were judged. So it was very, very challenging.
Tom Casey:And when I took one particular role, a CFO job, I definitely needed to transition from being kind of a financial expert to now a part of the executive team and you know I used to wear people out right, you know, level of questionings, getting them off topic, not staying focused on the agenda, and really that was something that I needed to needed that feedback. But it was really great feedback and kind of a pinnacle part of my career where I was able to kind of, you know, find my own way, find my own cadence, find my own approach to dealing with business partnerships around the organization. And that was kind of a pinnacle point in my career as far as really getting that feedback. And it was ongoing, it wasn't like it was like an annual review. This is like you know. This meeting didn't go well. This is the feedback.
Mike Maddock:you know, that's the key so I have a I, I am a small company start uh founder starter john's a bigger company starter founder. So we have listeners, um, a lot of small companies that have to have a CFO, and it's been my observation that a great CFO is hard to find and I have my own thoughts about that, but I'd like your thoughts. So, if you had a recruiting firm and you only recruited and placed CFOs, what makes a really good CFO?
Tom Casey:Yeah, Well, it's a good question, I think. The challenge is I think of it as like a big wheel of competencies and I think, as an early CFO, you only can fill out. You know, call 20, 25% of those companies. You may be really strong academically and so you know the technical skills. Maybe you've had some experience in processes and business processes that run the business, but when you start to broaden the wheel of competencies, you think about things like change management, risk management, data management, driving, growth integration, m&a, capital markets, cash flow management. You start taking that wheel and you start expanding it to these other competencies that evolve.
Tom Casey:And so when you think about a smaller company, you really need to be very deliberate on what type of CFO am I looking for, because they may have different parts of the wheel. So it's very possible in a smaller company, you need someone really operationally focused, because your accounting is not that complicated. Okay, so you should be leaning towards that type of friend. If you're in a big growth mode, you may need someone that understands capital markets or understands debt management and working with bankers, and that may be a slightly different need. So the CFO at the big, big companies they have the full competency wheel right. They built it over time. But as you start early in your career and even when I was back at GE, ge was an incubation right you were building out your wheel of competencies and as soon as you got you know you were good at four or five they put you into a couple of new ones. So that's the way I would think about it as a small business.
Mike Maddock:One last question about CFOing on a scale from one to 10, 10 being, you know, like superhero.
Tom Casey:Superman, one being none at all. What's your how? What kind of risk taker are you? You know, I would say I think it's a balance right. I think what I always took for my perspective is I was trying to always take kind of a temperature gauge for the whole company. If we had teams that were taking big, big risks, I was probably a little more conservative, you're a ballast, you're a ballast.
Tom Casey:Whereas I think some people say you know, I don't think we can do this. I think we can do this, so I I think we can do this, so. So I think I think it's a it's a little bit of a it depends answer, and so I think I could be a 10 and a one. You know, I've been in financial crisis times where you know you're, you're, you're 10, hey, we don't know what could happen here. We need to be more conservative versus when we're in a in in like.
Tom Casey:When I was in fintech, the growth curve was important. We needed to take some slightly different risks. So I think it really depends, and I think the CFO is in a unique seat to be able to do that heat map and understand are we taking risks? Because, you think about it, you've got different types of risks and I think being a CFO is fun because you're also a risk manager. Right, you're taking capital risk, operating risk, strategic risk. How's that balance of things? Because if you're taking lots of strategic risk, that may not be the right bet. Maybe it needs to be more rounded. So there's different risks sometimes that have to be kind of, you know, evaluated.
John Tobin:Awesome, thank you you know, evaluated Awesome. Thank you, hey, tom. I don't remember exactly when you moved to Seattle and, like we, our families got to know each other a bit. Was that at GE Capital or when you joined Wamuu?
Tom Casey:Yeah, it was. It was the first time I came to Seattle was actually in the early nineties. Ge bought a company out here, an insurance company, and I was in Connecticut and got an opportunity to come out. It's an important part of my story because it was the first time I could kind of commoditize myself as an executive. I came out as the controller of a small insurance company that we had purchased and that really took my career to a totally different angle.
Tom Casey:But you know, we did another company. We did something like 14 acquisitions in a few years and then we moved it to Richmond, virginia. But I got to know you the second time I came, and that was in early 2000s when I came out to be the CFO of Washington Mutual. I was an officer at GE. It's a great career I've been there 10 years but I really wanted to be a public company CFO and so the opportunity to come out to Washington Mutual as a CFO of at that time the sixth largest bank was a big opportunity for me and that brought my whole family back out.
John Tobin:Yeah, wow what was that, like Again, the opportunity was there in the public CFO seat. It was a big deal, but how did you feel? Were you just really confident that I'll figure it out, I'll work through it, or was that a big leap for you at the time? Or how risky, was it in your head.
Mike Maddock:When you take yourself back to that time, Tom, if I may, your hair was jet black when you started that day. Right Jet black.
Tom Casey:It was. It was, it was blonde and still blonde. It's just a different, different size. I'm glad I have it, but so so I think you know. But my thought process at the time was was really, I'd spent a decade at GE, I was an officer, gee, things were going very well. I'd spent a decade at GE. I was an officer at GE, things were going very well. Jack Welch had just announced his transition, so Jeff Immelt was taking over.
Tom Casey:This is 2001,. 9-11 had occurred and GE Capital was definitely going to have to go through some changes. Now, I would never have predicted the changes that went through after the 2008 crisis, but you know, I was a. You know, I was a 40 year old guy in a 50 year old job and this opportunity to become a public company CFO is kind of, you know, the golden rail right For CFOs to be a public company CFO If you really want to be a leader in the financial function's. That's kind of what a lot of people aspire to. So it was kind of a a natural, if you will, evolution for for the opportunity. This was kind of a unique one because um mamu had done a lot of acquisitions in the banking space and then tried to do a lot of them in the mortgage space and um and they they really needed some serious financial help at the time and so I came in and built out the team.
John Tobin:Yes, wow, yeah. And what's been crazy, like the growth that you witnessed and were a big part of. How was that? And you know, I'd love to hear a little bit about that journey, you know, to 2008 and the whole financial crisis a little bit. But as you think about the beginning and then what it went to, At the beginning.
Tom Casey:I think what I realized and again this only benefits from hindsight is when it came out of GE. It's important, you realize you left GE right, so you have a lot of skills and, as I often use, I had my clamp-ons, my ropes and all my gear, all my tools, all my process change management, all the things that I had learned. But now I was in a whole new environment where I didn't have other GE-trained people and so I had to adapt to my approach and timing and intensity and I was going East Coast. West Coast also, you know, using a football analogy, you know they're throwing and gunning and we were, you know, running the ball back East. So it was a very, very different kind of culture. So I had to adapt to all that. And then we had, you know, a very, very challenging. You know, if you go back to the early 2000s, it was a very challenging interest rate environment which Alan Greenspan was moving interest rates around quite a bit Definitely felt like there was a lot of work needed to be done on the company infrastructure strategy, finance team and, most importantly, where finance was structured in the company.
Tom Casey:One of the things I'm and I've done a number of these now is I'm always asking, like, where's finance in the company? Is it at the table? Is it you know? Just reporting out? Is it you know? Is it is it truly a strategic partner? Um, yeah, does everyone think they know about finance or what is it? And that's that's kind of an, it's kind of my MO, if you will, is really getting finance positioned properly, and my whole objective here is put financial leadership close to decision makers and increase their batting average. I mean, that's basically what it is, and if you get on base more, we're going to win more games. That's basically what it comes down to.
Mike Maddock:MARK BLYTH JR, and so there's no question that at the time you were there, we were doing work with Wachovia and Bank of America on new product stuff and Wamu was like the poster child for a rocket ship, innovation engine, like I remember going, my goodness, what this, this company, is really doing some amazing things. And then you know and then life happened. So what did you learn about leadership under crisis? In that, because you were surrounded by leaders who were in crisis, what did it teach you?
Tom Casey:Well, I think I think you're right. We were incredibly innovative. You know you go back, these things all sound like table stakes, but you know we were incredibly innovative. You know you go back, these things all sound like table stakes, but you know we were opening up branches, we were doing online banking. We were kind of moving pretty quick um against our peer set um and um and really engaging customers in a very, very different way, and I'd say a lot of financial services are actually doing that same thing now, just really focusing on the consumer. Banks back then were just like deposits, not very focused on customer service, so now it's a big big deal.
Tom Casey:As far as dealing with crisis, I think the intensity that really has to be put in place is really before the crisis. Right, you need to have good data, good processes and good analytics to help you look over in the future. I think one of the things that I have learned as I go to other companies the ability to really spend time and energy forecasting your business, understanding what you're in control of, what you're not in control of, what kind of risks are you taking, what can go wrong, and being intense and have an intensity around that to really have the rigor to understand the risks that you are taking and the profile of the company. That requires a lot of financial acumen, a lot of candor, um, and and, frankly, a lot of confidence to say, look, I don't know what could happen, but this could happen, yeah. So it's a.
Tom Casey:It's a. It's a time of year where you kind of have to have to at least go through that so that you're not surprised. So things do go sideways If the wind shifts. You have, you know, a plan or a thought process of what needs to be done to to make the corrections you need and and and. Sometimes it's it's not fun work, frankly, but in in the financial services world, it's. It's critical that you and the team, the executive team, understands, you know, where battle stations are when, when things go sideways.
John Tobin:Yeah, that you guys were doing, was it like too much? And I imagine that you were kind of raising maybe different flags, like a yellow flag, like hey, let's watch this, but do you feel like you maybe should have done something different?
Tom Casey:I guess, yeah, well, it's interesting. You know the story be told here. Obviously, during the financial crisis, wamuu was sold to JP Morgan, but what people don't typically focus on is that we actually raised $7 billion of capital in April of 2008. David Bonderman put $1 billion in and I had investors screaming for more allocation of the offering and people felt that was the bottom. So you've got to go back and think about that. That was April of 2008. So we actually thought we were way ahead, john, of the issue, I think, as the kind of and I'm not going to rehash the story, but it's been written you know there was a lot of things that were going on over the summer that were out of our control Policy-related issues, uh, other companies, um and that we got caught up in. But you know, once the government decided to take over fannie and freddie, you know things things changed quite a bit. What's?
Mike Maddock:the next one.
Tom Casey:What's the government? You know, guaranteed money markets instead of guaranteeing bank deposits. Things changed so. So there was a lot of a a lot of things that we couldn't control, but we felt we were way, way ahead when we did the offering back in April of 2008.
Mike Maddock:Hey Tom, what makes a CEO easy or hard to work with?
Tom Casey:Well, I think, a CEO that feels that they're a financial expert and want to continue to spend their time in the finance world, that can be painful, but no, I think one that's fun with is they can go faster, knowing that they've got a good CFO on the con right. They've got a good CFO on the con right, and I think that's the key is. Like, what I tell people is like you know, look, the reason we have all these systems and controls in place is so we can go faster. I kind of use like a race car. Why does a race car have big brakes? Right, so it can go fast, right. So that's the same way to think about finance and the leadership there is like you can go fast and then we can fix and correct things if we need to. But if you don't have that and you go fast, you know you're going to hit the wall.
Tom Casey:So I think that's the important part is giving people the ability to go faster, make more, you know, take more risks, right, take more, you know the worst thing they can do is be conservative, conservative, conservative. So my finance team is conservative. Well, yeah, but are they holding back growth? Are they not giving us the additional capital. We need to grow Are they being conservative in their forecast and so we don't think we can grow faster. There's a real important balance there between enthusiasm and encouragement of growth versus being conservative all the time, and I think finance teams tend to get that negative bend, but if you've got a really great CFO, they're going to be able to balance that.
Mike Maddock:We just had a conversation with Terry Hill, who is an operating president at Nationwide Insurance, and one of the things she told us was when she got the gig, she brought her finance person with her because she goes. I was never that good at math and I had to run a big P&L, so I thought there it is, you know, like stay in your swim lane and trust someone you have. Just as a follow-up. I'm wondering how close you are with former CEOs? Are you buddies? Because that's kind of a Batman and Robin relationship when it's working transformations in my career.
Tom Casey:I would say I've got great experiences and, john you mentioned, would I do anything differently? Really not. I mean, you know my career has been, you know, a sawtooth. It's had its ups and downs but it's made me who I am and so I've had terrific, I've been blessed with these opportunities to help companies. You know, unfortunately sometimes, mike, you know, unfortunately sometimes mike, you know businesses are going through transformations, so there's, there's difficult decisions to be made, um, and so it's, it's not a necessary social type of relationship. But I think we've always had good professional relationships and and um, but you know it's, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's not a, I would say, social relationships no.
Mike Maddock:Got it, got it.
Tom Casey:For my teams it's very different, right? So you know my teams are. You know I've been spending a lot of time, you know, with I do a lot of. You know professional personal development. You know training, giving them opportunities, kind of doing the same thing what I got when I was at ge. You know, always pushing them to do new things and get new skills and and build their competency wheel that we talked about earlier, and and and. When I look back, those are probably you know, when I look at where some of those guys that work for me or what they're doing now. I'm very proud of of, uh, of what we went, all we did together.
John Tobin:I love that I was. I was going to reflect on that, tom, just because I know a number of people that you've worked with that have moved on and the really major roles and just incredible executives and they all speak so highly of you and working with you and uh, it just it says a lot and and but I got, I did get the feeling that it was, there was work, but it there was a social element to it and I think I I probably go too far the other way and try to build too many social relationships, but like, was that? Was that conscious with your team, do you think?
Tom Casey:Well, I think I think, when you're you know, I think you know how do you build teams right. Well, I think how do you build teams right? The number one way you build teams is go through a lot of common experiences, right? And so when you're going through transformations that I've been through, and finance being a big part of those, you got to have a squad right. You have to have a group of people that are trying to do the day job but also push the organization to where it needs to go. That can be, you know, very close relations with the board, with the CEO, because a lot of times, finance can be that break glass type of area to help the CEO drive the strategy that is needed. And so, yeah, I think that those kind of you know, shake it off type of moments where you're like whoa, like we're being asked to do things that haven't been done before, that does build a lot of a lot of teamwork.
Tom Casey:I think you know part of this is, like you know, just being humble about the challenges you have and being self-confident to be able to manage through them. You know and know that. You know the answers aren't always, always clear, I think. I think the big thing for for me, and what I've learned is he's this metaphor of just like looking over the horizon. I think when you're, when you're in these crises, sometimes it's very hard to look over the horizon. It's very hard to know what's on the other side and is it another hill, or is it actually the horizon right? And so getting people confident to understand how to manage through those types of ambiguity, uncertainties and timing and it's a very, very difficult state of leadership where you don't have those kind of clear boundaries that you're managing to.
John Tobin:That's good. I think it's very timely to bring that up and I want to hit on that a little bit later. But first I want to talk a little bit about the transition you made moving to San Antonio, joining Clear Channel. I remember Ellen and I my wife for the audience coming out and visiting you and Stephanie yeah, we had a great time.
Tom Casey:We were at the.
John Tobin:Riverwalk there and Mike, we were supposed to be at this company event thing that we had for our, I think, our Dallas office at the time and we had one of these like retreats and we were sitting right on the Riverwalk and we hadn't seen the retreats, and we were right on the river walk and we hadn't seen the Casey's in a long time and you know, we opened a bottle of wine. Then it became two, three.
Mike Maddock:When he got to 14, the police arrived.
John Tobin:You know, almost walking into the river walk, and I think I had to be escorted home and it was so great seeing you guys and it just seemed like that was kind of a walking into the river walk and I think I had to be escorted home, but it was so great seeing you guys and it just seemed like that was kind of an interesting condition for you and the family.
Tom Casey:Just maybe can you talk a little bit about that, yeah, well, you know, after the financial crisis, you know, and JP Morgan taking over Washington Mutual, you know I was faced with, you know, challenging times, right? I'm now still a young guy. I got plenty of game left. What do I do, right? So, so Tom Casey's got to go reinvent himself, right? The key thing, some of the things I tell people is you know, the good news is I had a lot of confidences right Back to. You know, I had a lot of experiences that I could actually help other companies.
Tom Casey:And you know, coming out of the financial crisis, a lot of companies were in different periods. A lot of people were in cost-cutting mode, a lot of people restructuring their businesses, and the opportunity to go down to Clear Channel was a private equity transaction that was highly leveraged and going through transformation. This little company called Google was just starting. It's hard to imagine that they only had 10% 15% of the ad market back in 2010. Think about that In 15 years, they've just gobbled up the ad market.
Tom Casey:And so, you know, going down, there was a bit of a transformation for me yet again to to go into a totally different industry, from financial service to media, uh, and and and help that team with, uh, the things they were going through. So it was kind of a you know outer body experience to. To take a kid from the east coast via seattle to san antonio, texas, um, and you know, move the whole family and and go through that kind of transformation and, look, I learned a lot and our families you know very close, as a result of of those types of, you know, personal transformations we went through as well, um, but you know it was a, it was a very, very difficult time but, uh, one that you know we look look back on with with some smiles and good memories of that.
Mike Maddock:Is there? Is there any piece of boardroom advice you've? What's the best boardroom advice you've ever gotten in the worst, Like through your journey, like man, that was bogus and that was really gold.
Tom Casey:Well, I think boards are challenging for a board, you know, they're not as close to the operations as sometimes they need to be, and so their judgments are only based upon the information they get. So one thing is making sure that they're carrying along with, or being brought along with, the information. But, you know, I think the worst can be a passive board, you know, a board that is deferential to the CEO and doesn't challenge them. It can be really challenging, particularly during some of this transformation I was talking about challenging, particularly during some of this transformation I was talking about. You know, conversely, I've had some boards that are always pushing me to get outside of.
Tom Casey:I'll call the traditional finance role. You know, it's like it could be. Hey, you know, when you, you guys, are doing a huge data conversion, where are you, tom? Like? It's like whoa, wait a minute. Okay, I didn't think that was in my area. They're like no, no, you're just as responsible there as everybody else.
Tom Casey:So those types of things, or M&A oh, it's being done by the business development. No, no, actually finance, get to the table. What's the? Get the accountability up, and that was one thing that I always tried to increase my accountability to the board as high as I could to make sure that they knew I was trying to communicate as effectively as I could and taking on accountability, particularly in things like M&A, where the unknown is we haven't even bought the company yet, and here's the forecast. We did this with. We did this with a bank and we bought a bank in when I was at lending club, you know, you know, the board was like, okay, we're going to go buy a bank. It was like, wow, this is a pretty big transformation with the company and and we worked a lot, you know, prepping the board, going through all the details and then and then ultimately executing the transaction.
Mike Maddock:But those, those are, those are some of the interactions I've had with the boards do you, do you have a uh, any thoughts on how you think ai is going to change the way finance leaders forecast raise capital, manage risk. I mean, is it like a tsunami? What do you think?
Tom Casey:it's it's got to be. You know there's a lot of um. You know, if you think about finance per second, there's a lot of bad jobs, a lot of good finance people but a lot of bad jobs. And particularly when you go into a company that hasn't invested in technology, there's just, you know, people are moving numbers around and they don't know where they go and the value is low and they don't feel fulfilled. So I think areas like AI, capabilities like AI can really eliminate a lot of that stuff.
Tom Casey:Account reconciliations, forecast I mean forecast. I mean I'll give you an example. You know we go out, we do a forecast and it's everyone's gut feel on what it's going to be over the next. You know, quarter, rest of the year, two years, three years out, versus using the trends and risk-based assessment that AI can provide, you is probably going to be better and it's going to be more objective, and so those are the types of things that I think can really eliminate a lot of the gamesmanship.
Tom Casey:And when you're doing budgeting and everyone's like, oh, everyone has a big budget, then you have to skinny it down. It just takes so much time and wasted energy. So I think AI can really help in a lot of these areas and make people's jobs better, but I think there's going to be less financial talent. The one thing I caution, though, is I look at my own career and I did the stair step of of learning, and how are you going to get that learning if you don't go through it? And so I think that's going to be the interesting you know uh interesting type of uh evolution on on future leaders. You know, will they know the domain right, um, you know so.
John Tobin:I think that it's a really good point and something I do worry about. Some of the people like just coming into the work, working world now and all the hard, hard things that we did, that were kind of manual, but it was a way that you learned. You really did learn a lot, yeah, does that I mean? I think maybe, maybe it's still the same, but you're just leveraging AI and you become an expert in asking those good questions, setting up the right prompts more quickly, so maybe that will be that, like that. That's not just how people will evolve, but I do worry a little bit about the growth piece of that and do grow through experiences and things like that.
Tom Casey:Yeah, look, I don't want to be overly simplistic, but I would say most companies aren't even ready to leverage it. I mean, when you really think about it. I mean, you know, unless things have changed since I've retired in the last two years, you know, just having your data clean, just having it available to be used to model AI capabilities. If you don't have that, you have to do some pre-work before you even get to that point.
Tom Casey:So, if you think about it, I always use the phrase a thousand good decisions got us here, but we're in a bad spot. You've done 10 acquisitions and you just stacked on the technology you haven't integrated, and so you've got customer definitions that are disparate. You've got, you know, products that don't connect, so we can't see a customer view. These are present in most companies and you have to fix those first before you can really start to leverage the technology.
John Tobin:Especially in a big way like an enterprise-wide. I think what we're finding is that about 70% of the global 2,000, let's say are doing stuff with AI, but it's more proof of concepts, very small use cases around productivity improvements and you know some some automation, but like very, very small and very little. It's more dabbling. 30% are actually making big bets on it, and so we're we're trying to move that number up. That's a big focus for for us at Slalom, but, um, you're right, it's very early days, frankly, yeah it is Go ahead.
John Tobin:Go ahead at slalom, but you're right, it's very early days. Frankly, yeah, it is Go ahead, go ahead. I was going to switch gears a little bit, but I think one of the things, with your seat at the table and our podcast, what we want to do is we want to highlight and I think you've already highlighted a number of different situations that you've been in but really decision making and how you approach decision making and maybe either if you can give your like overall way that you approach making a tough decision and or give, maybe even give, an example of how you went through that. Maybe who did you bring together to help make that decision, or was it just you, kind of on your own, boldly making the decision? Can you just maybe talk a little bit about decision making and and perhaps one example of that?
Tom Casey:yeah, well, I think, I think, uh, I've got a lot of process background and one of the most important things I learned when I was a G is this change acceleration process, and it can be used for business, can be used for your life. Frankly, how do you get people to go in the same direction? What I find is and this sounds so simple, but you know, does everyone agree on the environment? Like, does everyone know the trends we're dealing with and the implications? And I would tell you, if you ask you know a group of people to write them down, write them down Like, don't just kind of like write them down. You'd be surprised that you get like an eye chart, like everyone sees the eye chart. You know, I see it 2020.
Tom Casey:You're a little nearsighted, so you're thinking one and two quarters out. Someone's really farsighted and say I wouldn't look over the horizon and before you know it, you don't even know what altitude you're at. Are we at 10,000 feet, 50,000 feet? Like we can't even have a conversation about what to do if we don't agree on the environment and what altitude we're at. Are we talking about, you know, current view or long-term view? And so that just table stakes, like decision-making is we have to agree on the environment and what timeframe. We're dealing with Like we don't think that's profound.
Mike Maddock:actually, I think that is absolutely profound.
Tom Casey:But you know, I kind of use the eye chart as a frame, because everyone looks at it differently and it becomes so passionate about you know, if we do this over the horizon and so that person's big strategic mind, okay, great, but you know, at the end of the day you have to tell people what you want them to work on tomorrow, and so there's this huge gap between vision and execution. And I have got just a series of tools, john, that I use to help break these things down so that the middle managers I call them the meat in the sandwich they can actually tell people what to do. So it's too often the execs are up here at 50,000 feet big vision and then the folks that are doing the work hear that and they go okay, great, but how do I get from here to there? And that middle layer is the translation layer. They need help. They need help. They need help on prioritization guidelines.
Tom Casey:What is the true objectives we're trying, what's our guiding principles? You know, how do we mobilize commitment to drive these things and translate them into initiatives and projects, things like that? So I would say that is the primary thing I focus on and I do a little heat. Check on that If it's way off. That's like where I start is make sure we're in agreement on what we're even dealing with.
John Tobin:That's so timely, tom, honestly for our company, because we're going through this big operating model change and I'd say certain parts of the executive team is thinking five years out. Certain are really swimming right in the moment. Some people are looking back in history of what we have like it's. Look at the two things that I'm really taking this and, you know, does everyone see the environment the same? And that music line is so huge. And then the mobilization of commitment throughout the organization in that meet group that you talked about. I think that's so huge.
Tom Casey:Anyway, those are. That's awesome. I'm happy to make a trip down to Seattle and talk to Saur. It is amazing. You know, what you don't realize is it takes enormous energy and resolve to constantly not have like good meetings, like no one wants to have a bad meeting, like who wants to have a bad meeting. Like where we're not in agreement we can't seem to get to get. You know, we don't want to deal with controversy or be disrespectful, but gosh, we're not aligned.
Tom Casey:Yeah, and sometimes you need you need to feel of like someone like me uh, finance professional is kind of objective and says look, here's the math man you want, you want to take a financial view, great, capability view, great, but but let's have the real discussion here and sometimes those are very, very difficult and I've just learned over time to just have the resiliency. I don't have the answer. I'm happy to not have the answer, but I'm happy to ask the question and happy to help figure out the answers. But I have a good sense of where things are dislocated between what people are doing on the ground floor and execs at the top, and that can be in a small company or a big company, it doesn't really matter. I've seen it in both.
John Tobin:Mike, I'd love to have you do some quick fire questions, but before you do that, I'm curious'm curious. Time with the, the. Now you're doing executive coaching, and I mean a lot of the insights that you've just talked about over the last 45 minutes or so is that? Is that how that is for you? How has the transition been to doing executive coaching? Do you like it? Um, maybe just talk a little bit about that. Yeah, yeah.
Tom Casey:Well, I, so I, I just recently started doing this and you know, I, I, I'm, I'm consider myself an advisor, right, but I'm also learning new skills as a coach and I think, you know, I think I'm asking more questions, giving less direction, being less task oriented and being more, being more focused on your environment and yourself and your behaviors.
Tom Casey:So it's a very, very different positioning for me. Frankly, I didn't think I'd be good at it, but I'm actually finding that I like it a lot and I think I can add a lot of value. Again, it's back to this point I mentioned earlier, just using CFOs as an example. Most CFOs are pretty confident, they have good acumen and we're just trying to build out their wheel right, their wheel of competencies, and so, if I can help them build competencies as they're kind of on the job, they're just going to be a better CFO, the exec team and boards and their teams will be, will be more efficient with uh, with their time, and so that's kind of where my my niches and where I find myself, uh, uh, adding the most value, and so, um, it's been fun, it's really a lot of fun.
Mike Maddock:So I do have some rapid fire questions that I want you to think too hard, let's do it. Let's do it. Yeah, so if tomorrow a fortune 10 company called and said we want you to take the CFO position, would you take it?
Tom Casey:Probably not. You know, one of the things about being a public company CFO is it's a 24-7 job. You know it's so intense. There's no what I call. There's no dimmer switch and the way I you know, you can't. You can't phone it in, you can't. You can't phone it in, you can't.
Tom Casey:There's no glide path for cfos, it's just an on off switch like yeah you just can't do it, and so the intensity that that would require, um, you know is is pretty high and and, uh, and you know, and you should be there for a few years. You know, you can't, you know you can't you, so be a, you know, five year plus commitment type thing. So so it's not just, you know, would I help out, sure, can I advise sure, but you know, five year plus commitment type thing. So so it's not just, you know, would I help out, sure, can I advise Sure? But you know, at this point in my career I think I'm having fun doing some other things.
John Tobin:It's interesting, really impact your golf game too. Yeah, I, I, I don't believe you, tom.
Mike Maddock:I, you strike me. You strike me as like a, like the coach that has been to the NCAA tournament a few times. You're taking a couple of years off. You're like man, the dopamine being in the game, and I don't mean I'm tongue in cheek.
Tom Casey:The pay coaches love more than they used to, that's for sure.
Mike Maddock:That's right, they are, that's right. Okay, so here we go. Rapid fire questions One number every CEO should know, but usually doesn't.
Tom Casey:Every number, every number a CEO should know and doesn't? Oh boy, good question, head count.
Mike Maddock:All right. Most overrated financial metric.
Tom Casey:I think overrated financial metric would probably be margin.
Mike Maddock:Margin Interesting Greatest CFO of all time, other than you?
Tom Casey:Oh, I'd have to go back to my mentor, Dennis Darmaman at GE.
Mike Maddock:Awesome, all right, and then finally, my favorite question risk or discipline which has made you more money?
Tom Casey:I'd say discipline yeah.
Mike Maddock:I'd say discipline. I'd say risk.
John Tobin:You complete me, no one would say that Mike.
Mike Maddock:I told they would. I'm your worst nightmare, Tom. As I see it, Would you?
Tom Casey:get on the point I always used to use this term don't confuse discipline with bureaucracy.
Mike Maddock:Yeah, there's a difference.
Tom Casey:And so people think, oh, it's bureaucratic, not really, we're just trying to actually figure out what we spend money on. That seems reasonable, doesn't it?
Mike Maddock:I wish, I wish, having spent the better part of an hour with you, that I I could. I hope I get a chance to be in a room with you someday and watch you work, because I think it would be really enlightening, and I can see you steering the ship with a couple of really good questions. So what an honor to be with you, tom. Thanks for thanks for spending a little bit of time with John.
Tom Casey:I appreciate it and good luck with you guys. This is a this is a great endeavor, and uh, and I wish you the best of luck, Thank you sir.
John Tobin:Tom, thanks, thanks so much. A lot, of, a lot of great wisdom and thoughts for people to take away and, uh, honestly, leverage right away. So thank you for the time. Great having you on your seat at the table. Thank you very much.
