Your Seat at the Table - Real Conversations on Leadership and Growth

Leadership Habits That Actually Scale with Brent Tadsen

• Mike Maddock & John Tobin

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You know that tense moment when everyone swears they’re aligned—and then the work tells a different story? We sit down with Brent Tadsen, former GE master black belt and combat engineer, to unpack why teams miss the mark and how simple, disciplined moves restore clarity, speed, and trust. For decision-makers dealing with execution gaps—and for any leader who’s ever felt alone in tough calls about accountability—this conversation cuts straight to what actually works.

Brent takes us from Notre Dame ROTC to the factory floor to the C-suite, showing how his early love for Lean and Six Sigma collided with a harsh 360 review that labeled him a poor listener. That wake-up call reshaped his leadership through a question-driven mindset: invite problems on purpose, define success in plain language, and treat feedback as a gift. His wiffle ball exercise proves the point in minutes—when leaders set clear outcomes and rules, performance improves without dashboards, committees, or heroics.

We dig into the traps that derail alignment: town-hall-only communication, the quiet ways 360s get gamed, and deflection patterns that stall cross-functional work. Brent shares a striking alignment test—seven executives, note cards, and twenty-two different “top three” priorities—and explains how to cascade goals so everyone can tell the same story. It’s peer-powered disruption without theatrics: clarity beats charisma every time.

Brent also opens up about launching Adaptive after a decade of preparation, why 95% of his work comes from referrals, and how career capital and social trust matter more than any pitch deck. For anyone ready to challenge their comfort zone as a leader, this episode shows when to run toward the roar—and when to decide what’s not your problem so the system can perform.

If you lead a team, you’ll walk away with practical moves you can use immediately: audit alignment monthly, listen until it hurts, and make execution visible. Real leaders. Real stories. Real action. We close with where Brent sees the next edge—using AI and copilots to amplify continuous improvement without sacrificing judgment. Subscribe, share with a teammate who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

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Brent Tadsen:

Yeah, so so I I like to use the term problem consciousness. Right. In until we know we have a problem, we can't start the problem solving process. Um, so another another exercise that I like to do in classes, I I say, hey, we're gonna talk about problem solving. So does anybody here have a problem in in your department, your organization that you would like to share with us?

Mike Maddock:

Welcome to the Your Seat at the Table podcast with your hosts, Idea Monkey Mike Mattock, and ringleader John Tobin. We're two founders, a serial entrepreneur and a billion-dollar operator. Talk to leaders about how, when, and why they made their most pivotal decisions in life. Join us as we share wisdom, mistakes, and a few laughs learning from the brightest minds in business today.

John Tobin:

All right. Welcome to your seat at the table. We have uh Brent Tadson and Brent, it's great to meet you. Thank you for joining Mike and I. And uh you you have quite an interesting background, um, centered, you know, starting with GE and um maybe maybe just tell us your origin story a little bit. Where'd you grow up? And then I know you went to Notre Dame, which I'm a huge, huge Notre Dame fan. Go Irish. I don't know if Mike is a fan, but his dad went there, so he had to be a fan. And he woke up at every woke up every Saturday to the you know Notre Dame fight song. So maybe just share with us a little bit, like how did you get started and what made you go to Notre Dame?

Brent Tadsen:

I'm gonna give you the the quick answer on why Notre Dame, because my mom was a Notre Dame fan. There you go. All right. I I sometimes refer to myself as a sports idiot, except for Notre Dame football. And I remember as a young kid being in her room and seeing, like, you know, this was when they had the helicopters way before drones, right? Shut, you know, getting the getting the shot of the golden dome. And my mom says, that's where I want you to go to school someday. I was like, okay, mom. And uh, you know, as I as I got into my senior year, I wanted to do mechanical engineering. And I I I was you were stereotypical 18-year-old boy who had no understanding of the world around me, because in my mind, every single school had a mechanical engineering program. Like that was college, every everybody had it. Um so I said, Yeah, mom, I think I'll be looking at at Notre Dame. And she was like, That's that's the right answer, son. So that that's how I ended up going there. Uh, the ROTC story is is even better. Um, one of our neighbors did Air Force ROTC, and my mom heard about the ROTC scholarships, and Notre Dame was a relatively pricey school, and she was like, son, you can go to Notre Dame, they will pay 80% of your tuition, and then if you don't want to continue with ROTC, you you there's there's no catch. You just tell them no thanks and you you leave. So I get to the end of my yeah, I and I and I well I it at that time that's how it worked. You you had one. Oh, it did.

Mike Maddock:

That I thought that's how my dad went up in Vietnam.

Brent Tadsen:

No, that was the draft, Mike. That was the draft.

Mike Maddock:

We went to Notre Dame ROTC and then went up.

John Tobin:

ROTC at Notre Dame, actually. There's a total parallel there. Yeah. Did you grow up in Chicago? I I see you live in Illinois now. We're both from Chicago as well.

Brent Tadsen:

Yeah, so I'm up in Barrington right now, but I grew up in Minnesota. Uh like my dad was actually uh a high school art teacher and the downhill ski team coach.

John Tobin:

Oh wow. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay, so so you graduated uh from Notre Dame. Did you go to the Army then? Or what what what happened in that? How did maybe if you want to quickly pivot to how you got the GE, that would be um Yeah, absolutely.

Brent Tadsen:

So I I went and I I did my four years as a combat engineer, uh, got out as a a baby captain, and as I was transitioning out of the military, I had uh interviewed with a small consulting firm out of Kansas City, and then I got this call and I was like ready to take the offer, thought it was gonna be great. And I got a call from one of these junior military officer recruiters, and I'm not sure if you're familiar with them, but these these guys are kind of like vultures, um, headhunting organizations. And they called me and said, Brent, we really want you to go up and talk with GE appliances. And I was like, I can't, I've already got a job, you know, this is this is, you know, I'm I think I'm good. They're like, no, no, no, you really got to go check it out. And I was like, all right, you know, I I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm a roadie retired on active duty uh with my 30 days left. And I went up, or before I went up there, I got Jack Welch's book, The GE Way. And I started reading through it and I started learning about the Six Sigma stuff and the process improvement and about Gigi and I started getting excited. So I show up uh in Louisville, Kentucky to interview for a supplier quality engineer role. And I sit down with the interviewer and I tell him, yeah, I'd really like a black belt role. And you know, this this is again, you know, now I'm now I'm not 18-year-old boy Brent, but now I'm 22-year-old boy Brent who knows nothing about business. And I show up at the job interview and ask for a different job. They were like, hold your horses, you know, do this role. So um I did that role at GE, uh, new product introduction on dishwashers, uh, working with suppliers, working with with engineers. Um, it to this day, it is uh was a fantastic experience. Uh, and my favorite party trick is I show up at people's homes during parties and I open up their dishwasher and I point out that their mid-spray arm isn't isn't on right, and I fix that. And then I show them that their filters are removable and that you can clean this thing. And I'm telling you, nine out of ten parties that Brent Tadson goes to afterwards the next day, I get a phone call. Oh my God, our dishes are so clean. I cannot believe what you did for us.

Mike Maddock:

He's the dishwasher guy. Did you get when you were at GE, did they move you? Uh GE's kind of famous for moving you from sales to marketing to operations. Did you have all those different positions?

Brent Tadsen:

So I moved a number of so I I got moved across GE businesses, less so functions. Got it. You know, I what one of the things that I always tell folks who are asking me for career advice is don't change companies and functions at the same time. Right? If you're an accountant and you're gonna go to a different account company, go take an accounting role there because you have to learn the new organization, how their industry, how they work. Um, so I started GE Appliances. I went to GE Medical Systems, where I was a black belt. Then I went downtown Chicago to GE Railcar Services to be a master black belt. Then I went to GE Asset Intelligence, where I did some government and industry relations. And then I was talking with the CFO, and we uh he was saying, Oh, Brent, this this isn't the real GE, this is just how we do it here. And I said, you know, Mike, this this is how we do it everywhere, GE.

Mike Maddock:

Who is the sensei of all the black belts? That's what I want to know. If you go from like black belt to master black belt, is there one black belt that everybody that is? Yeah, like when you organization the rice paper, then you can be CE or like six people at once to get that master. It's like Thunderdome black belt. What happens?

Brent Tadsen:

Only if you bring your num jucks, all right? Um so a lot of the GE businesses, so so the you know, the we had the green belts were which were people that were actually executing continuous improvement projects and doing a role. We had the black belts who were dedicated continuous improvement people who were put onto strategic projects, and then we had master black belts uh who are basically managing initiatives. Now, above the master black belts, some businesses had what we call the quality leader. Um, but I do remember back in, I'm gonna say it was 2006 when we were making the change from Six Sigma to Lean Six Sigma, uh, and we went across the the 13, I think there were 13 different GE businesses at that time. We did this matrix of certification requirements and kind of all the structure, and there were 13 different companies. Like we did not have a standard across the the G businesses.

Mike Maddock:

Can I ask you a question that's gonna horrify you?

Brent Tadsen:

I uh you can horrify me all day long, Mike. I'm not scared.

Mike Maddock:

Is is was there anybody who is just so clever that really wasn't a black belt but demanded to be called one and the the company just let him get away with it? Like, all right, Frank's, we can't we can't tick off Frank. Call him black belt.

Brent Tadsen:

No, no, to to be a black belt, you actually had to be in the role for 18 months. Okay. And then and then you had to meet the requirements, and then you got got certified. No, nobody snuck over the radar on that.

John Tobin:

All right, slacking off, buddy.

Mike Maddock:

My mom also pointed at the TV and said, That's where I want you to get her school, and I completely disappointed her. You know, she went to St.

John Tobin:

Mary's print. They probably actually loved your boldness in the interview about being a black belt right away. Honestly, they probably that probably that probably helped you at the end of the day.

unknown:

Yeah.

Brent Tadsen:

You know what, it may have, but I'll say this my my boldness coming out of the military and transitioning to the uh civilian or corporate world was a tough transition for me. And uh so I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna relate back to John when he was at EY and he got his five five evaluations and the cultural one he pulled a one out of five on. Um I I was the guy that sat down in meetings and people would say things, I'd I'd say, Well, that's that's just the stupidest idea I've ever heard. And everybody would be like, What? What did this guy just say? Um, I I was um, yeah, I I was I was I was not very savvy. Uh I was somewhat bullheaded. You can ask my wife, she'll say I still am. Um one of the things that I remember doing there was I I went to a a new manager development class and we did one of those 360 evaluations where you know different people rate you on on different competencies. They've kind of fallen out of favor these days, but I think there's still a lot of value if you do them right, keep them anonymous, and don't show them to HR or somebody's boss. But I'm flipping through mine and I'm like, okay, this is good, this is good. And I get to this page and it's like flashing red. And the the the competency was listening. And my average score was six out of ten. And the comments, the comments were just nasty. Brent shows up to meetings and asks for people's opinions, but doesn't listen to them. Brent often interrupts or cuts people off. Um so the the good news was I I achieved what what I like to call problem consciousness after reading that. And the second half of that class, we we went through a lot of listening skills, um, training. So I I know that I've gotten better, and at the same time, I I still struggle with it if I'm not focused on it.

John Tobin:

How do you catch yourself or do you catch yourself? Or yeah, do you have a mechanism um that wakes you up when you're not doing it or you fall back into those bad habits, maybe?

Brent Tadsen:

I I think the biggest telltale thing is when I'm speaking and somebody else is speaking, and as soon as I realize that the the the two words that I like to use are go ahead and and let them finish their thought.

John Tobin:

Yeah, got it. You you said you said something and I I I do want to test this a little bit, and Mike, I may hit you up on the way you see this from a flourished forum standpoint, but um you you said that 360s are a little bit out of favor right now. I I didn't know that. I don't know if that I know that because we seem to be doing a lot of them actually internally, uh and I think they're I still believe in them and getting the real feedback, and especially to your point, like on the written comments. Um I just did one the other day for one of my direct reports, and they didn't have a written format. And I don't know, I think I feel like it's I feel like he he's not gonna get the real feedback. But I'm curious why you if you've heard that, like as you you're bumping into different companies, and then Mike, how do you guys do your training as you prepare for your forums? So Brent first, then Mike.

Brent Tadsen:

Sure. So what I what I've heard with the with a number of different clients is oh yeah, that 360 thing, everybody games it now. And you know, Mike and Brent are both going to be competing for the same promotion. So Brent's gonna say negative things about Mike so that he doesn't look as good. So that's that's the gaming. And again, I really think that that happens when we don't use like a third party to actually conduct the 360 and we share somebody's 360 results with HR or their manager or somebody else. Interesting. If we keep it just showing it to that person, I think it's highly valuable. And if we've got the right culture where people feel like, hey, I can be open and honest about you, even though there's a little bit of animity behind the 360. Um, I I I personally believe they're valuable. Mike, your thoughts how you guys do it?

John Tobin:

I think you're hitting on the culture piece. I think you've got to have the right culture set up that you expect feedback, you know how to give feedback, and you want feedback. And I think it yeah, for us, it's it's less about putting this person over this person. It's truly just about overall improvement from a leadership standpoint. But Mike, I I I want to digress and just ask you how do you look at that, that kind of thing, and what what what tool do you use from that standpoint in the UK?

Mike Maddock:

So so everyone in a flourish is a PL owner. So most of them are president or CEO. So the challenge is um even if they want feedback, people are afraid to give it to them. And so um but the the real opportunity for CEOs, I think, is to make them very aware of how they see challenges and how they might that might blind them to not seeing things. It's the law of instrument, they're looking for a nail because they're a hammer. So what I like to do is point out before someone um gets feedback from a bunch of different CEOs, to notice the feedback they really like, like, oh my god, that's pretty good, and recognize that that's the way they see the problem, but then really notice how other people uh see the problem differently than they do. And and it's the question they're asking about the problem, not the the advice they're giving it. So you you you you will ask different questions about an issue if you see it differently, and that's where the aha moment is. So it's like, yeah, you could fix this problem, but wouldn't it be great better if you focused on the thing that you're really, really good at and then have someone else help you with something that they love doing? Um what about the a I'm I Brent? Thanks for asking, John. I'm curious about I I want to hang with this for one moment. You said that out of the army, you you're you were so um I forget the word you use, but uh essentially you were aggressive to say how you felt. I know that the after-action review is a process that is used in the military so that people are not afraid to give feedback. What was it about being in the military that had you being so uh bullish or aggressive with your feedback?

Brent Tadsen:

So I I think it was really just the bluntness.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Brent Tadsen:

Like we've got a mission, we're gonna go do it. You know what? Your feelings are nice, Mike, John, but at the end of the day, we got to get the mission done. So I don't have a whole lot of time for your feelings. We gotta go. And and that was basically, you know, my mindset when I went to corporate America.

Mike Maddock:

Okay, so fast forward. Here we are in a style thing, Mike.

John Tobin:

It's like that's what it seems like style.

Mike Maddock:

I think that I hear great things about military people because sometimes you just need to say, Does anybody else see the elephant in the room? There's a freaking elephant in the room, you know, like, and people are afraid to say it. Um so uh you have your own company now. Talk about that transition and and what makes you so good at what you do, other than you know, you're obviously uh self-aware, you're humble, you've got a good sense of humor.

John Tobin:

Yeah, how did how did adaptive start? Yeah.

Brent Tadsen:

So um there were there were four of us master black belts at at GE that I mean we we really believed in what I'm gonna call true lean thinking, where where it's a it's a it's a system, it's the way we think, act, and behave. We're focused on maximizing customer value, not just using the tools like Kanban and Jadoka. Um, and we we thought like other organizations could benefit, and we wanted to go out and train them on how to do that. Well, um we we had a lot of ideas. We had two guys whose wives said, Nope, you're not gonna do it. And I was the guy that said, Hey, I'll I'll be the point man. And uh when when I jumped, uh my wife uh wasn't working outside the house, and we had a six-month-old baby.

Mike Maddock:

Yeah, no pressure.

Brent Tadsen:

No, no pressure at all.

Mike Maddock:

No pressure, yeah.

Brent Tadsen:

Now to be to be fair, I had I had a trigger point, which is another military term where we're gonna wait until certain conditions happen and then we're gonna take our predescribed action. And my trigger point was I wanted to book 50% of my time for a year. And some folks that I had worked with in Italy who who sell appliance components and manufacturing equipment in the US had been calling me since I left GE Appliances six years prior to this. Uh, hey Brent, would you open up a US office? Would you open up a US office? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, thank you. And I think he had like the recurring invite in his Outlook calendar, like every November 2nd, call Brent. And then one November 2nd, I get the phone call and he's like, How are you doing? What are you doing? I said, Well, I'm working with these guys and we're trying to start a consulting company. And he says, Well, why haven't you started it? And I said, Well, I need to book half my time for a year. And he goes, Oh, well, that's simple. I'll take half your time for a year. Uh so that that was kind of the the initial launch to to get us going.

Mike Maddock:

Are you still in touch with that guardian angel?

Brent Tadsen:

Is that person still in your I am I am still running his US organization for him? Congratulations. We are still good friends. Yeah, Joe Jo Giovanni's his name. He's awesome.

Mike Maddock:

Giovanni. What a great, what a great testimony that you're still with him. How long has it been?

Brent Tadsen:

Uh eighteen years. Good. Yeah. Congratulations.

John Tobin:

Well done. That's amazing.

Mike Maddock:

So are there things like uh you've been doing it for 18 years? Years. Any truth bombs you'd like to share? Things that people get right or wrong in leadership?

Brent Tadsen:

Yeah. So I you know, I I I get the opportunity to work with a lot of different companies. Um, I I work with a lot of C-suite level folks, I I work with shop floor folks, and I work with with everybody in between. And I would say that there are some common areas where where we all as leaders can improve. Um, I would say the first one is making sure that we set really clear expectations with our teams. Uh, number two is making sure that that we create the right culture and and that includes a culture.

Mike Maddock:

I I wanna I sorry to interrupt you, uh and I would say go on, but I because you gave me that great coaching. But I'm really I think I just want to stop on setting really clear expectations because I my experience has been that the most brilliant coaching advice always sounds really obvious because it is. And so let's just stop there. Like setting like what is the outcome we want? What is like I just heard um my wife said uh the she she had a coach tower, wake up in the morning or at the end of every day and ask yourself the question did my activities today get me closer or farther away from what I'm trying to make happen? You know, like being really clear on the expectations for yourself, that's where it starts, and then for the teeth. So tell say a little bit more about that, Brad. They don't set clear expectations. What does that look like?

Brent Tadsen:

Well, uh, how about this? I'm gonna I'm gonna share an exercise that I do when I'm doing training classes. So usually when I'm doing training, I have the group in a horseshoe formation. I'm at the center of the horseshoe. And then what I'll do is I will take my wiffle ball that's always in my laptop case. I mean, this thing has been around the globe with me, right? And I'll I'll throw it to somebody in the room. And they catch it, and then I just sit down and I don't say anything. And I wait and I look around a little bit, and then the room kind of mumbles a little bit, and maybe the person will throw it to somebody else, maybe they'll they'll play with it. And then after maybe a minute, minute and a half, somebody finally is like, Well, Brent, what are we supposed to do? And I say, Well, pass it to somebody in the room that hasn't already had it. And then eventually they start passing it around the room, and when the last person gets it, I hold up my cell phone and I say, It took all of you four minutes to complete this simple exercise. I have been doing this for 18 years, and this is the worst group I have ever seen. You all need to be ashamed of yourselves. And then I I call timeout and I say, How's everybody feeling right now? And they say, I'm I'm I'm I'm ashamed, I'm angry, I'm frustrated. And I said, Well, well, why is that? And they said, Well, you just berated us. And I said, Well, wait a minute. I had something that I wanted you to do, and I didn't provide any instructions on how to do it, but when I didn't get the result that I wanted, I got mad. And everyone goes, Yeah, that's kind of what happened. And then I said, So what you're telling me is if I were to provide clear expectations for this exercise, do you all think you could do better? And everybody says, Yeah. So I explain the rules and I say, Let's do it again. And I throw the ball to the the same person, and they always get it in about one minute or less. And then I say, Okay, so what just happened here was you all formed a committee and you put together a project charter and you had a weekly meeting to track progress on how we're gonna get this ball around the room faster, and maybe you brought in some six sigma green belts or black belts to help you. And they're all like, No, no, Brent, we we didn't have to do any of that. And I said, So wait a second, what you're telling me is that by simply clarifying expectations, you were able to go from four minutes to one minute. And everybody goes, Yeah, that's that's all we needed. And and I think that exercise really shows, like in business, if we're not setting clear expectations, we're not likely to get the results that we want. We're likely to have a frustrated team. Yeah, excellent. Thank you. Okay.

Mike Maddock:

Good one. Go back uh to to your resisting the play with I'm I'm resisting the I'm not. I'm not gonna resist, I am resisting. Okay, let's go to number two. I have a t-shirt you can give one.

Brent Tadsen:

Did you want me to fan extra a ball, Mike?

unknown:

No.

Mike Maddock:

What's the uh second thing that you've noticed?

John Tobin:

I now I gotta know what is in Mike's head.

Brent Tadsen:

All right, Mike, tell us. Otherwise, otherwise everyone's gonna die.

Mike Maddock:

You gotta give like Bernie the award for being the best at playing with your balls. No, we gotta cut that out, John. We're not cutting it out. Let's go.

John Tobin:

All right. I'm sorry. I should have I should have cut you off. You should have seen that coming. Yeah. All right, number two. All right, number two. So, Brent, number two, something about culture.

Brent Tadsen:

Yeah, so I I think it's it's really important uh for organizations to to have the right culture. And one of the big things that I see on culture is is having a culture of problem solving and problem consciousness. And when when you really think about a business, what we're doing is we're solving problems. We're we're solving a problem for a customer, and then we're solving a problem for the business on how we're gonna market it to the customer, and then we're solving a problem on how we're gonna sell it to the customer, and we're solving a problem on how we're gonna produce it and how we're gonna account for it. Business is problem solving. And I I'm I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna quiz you guys here just to make sure everybody's awake late in the day here. I know Mike is because he's he's cracking his jokes. What is what is the first step in problem solving?

John Tobin:

Identifying the problem. Yeah, clearly. Yes, defining and identifying, yeah.

Brent Tadsen:

Yeah, so so I I like to use the term problem consciousness. Okay, and until we know we have a problem, we can't start the problem solving process. Um, so another another exercise that I like to do in class is I say, hey, we're gonna talk about problem solving. So does anybody here have a problem in in your department, your organization that you would like to share with us? And inevitably somebody raises their hand and they start explaining what their problem is and what things they've tried. And then I jump in and I say, you know what, Mike? I'm paying you to solve problems. So I don't need you coming up here and telling me about all these things that don't work. You need to go fix it, or you can get three words for me. Indeed.com.

Mike Maddock:

I'm getting like a Chris Finley vibe now.

John Tobin:

This is like motivational speaker.

Mike Maddock:

I know, like in a van down by the river.

Brent Tadsen:

That's right, that's right. And and and then what I do is I I look around the room and I say, hey, does anybody else have a problem you'd like to bring up?

Mike Maddock:

Yeah, and everyone jumps, jumps right up and says, absolutely.

Brent Tadsen:

And it's you know, it's it's they're like, no way I'm gonna bring up a problem. I I just saw what happened to Mike when he brought up a problem. And and I think this is this is one of the big cultural issues that that we have, is that we we don't create an environment where where people feel comfortable bringing up problems. And and if we're not bringing up problems, we're not doing the first step in problem solving, and our business is not going to be as successful as we could uh if we didn't have a culture where people are not only uh allowed to bring up problems, but encouraged to bring up problems, recognized for bringing up problems.

John Tobin:

I think there's a corollow corollary thing there with problems, and it's if you're pointing out a problem that probably mainly resides in one person's domain, and then they don't like just listen or accept it and maybe even ask for help, but they quickly defend or quickly point out a different problem that's not in their organization. The deflection piece is another kind of bad cultural component that I've seen uh happen a lot.

Brent Tadsen:

John, that that is huge. Like if if we're getting feedback, we need a culture that says this is a gift. Like, thank you for for pointing this out to me. Let me let me let me talk with my team to better understand it. Let me talk with your team to better understand how what we're doing is affecting you. And and that is a collaborative culture versus a culture of finger pointing.

John Tobin:

So that's another component from a leader standpoint of something that you see perhaps not set in the right way. Were there other anything else that come to mind? Because that's how the that's how Mike's question kind of started, where based on all the different leaders you're working with, are there commonalities or common things that you're helping solve or or helping uh put in place?

Brent Tadsen:

Well, you know, when we when we get into the clear expectations, um, you know, one of the things that I spend a lot of time on is talking about business strategy, defining goals, and cascading those goals and and making sure that we're providing feedback on those goals. And a lot of the times what I what I see is either the the the top leadership hasn't defined the goals or they haven't effectively communicated the goals. And I'm very clear when I say the word effectively communicated, because I'll I'll talk to any C-suite and they'll be like, oh, we've talked about this three times at a town hall meeting. Everybody should know it. Uh and in reality, not everybody understands it. Um, so there's a lot of different tools to use to cascade goals, lots of different templates. Um, but I I think it's so important for the leadership team to get aligned around the leadership team uh on what those goals are and and effectively communicate them. And here's a here's a a great uh funny story. So I was working with a C-suite a number of years ago, and we were we were doing like an operations review, and I have got the sales leader yelling at the operations leader, and I've got the operations leader saying it's the engineering leader's fault, and the engineering leader saying it's the marketing leader's fault. And I said, Okay, stop everybody. Let's just let's just hold on one second. I said, Are are we really aligned on on what our top priorities are? And everyone's like, Oh yeah, Brent, yeah, we got it. And I said, Okay. So I I reach into my my laptop uh case, my my it's my like security blanket. I don't leave home without it. And I always have a ball in there and I always have blank note cards. And now t-shirt. Absolutely, absolutely. Um and uh I I asked the the leadership team, I say, write on this note card the top three things that this organization needs to do in the next 12 months. And I want you to be specific, all right? You don't just get to say, we're gonna grow revenue, cut cost. Like, tell me, we're gonna grow revenue by $50 million in product line A. So I I pass out the note cards, I bring them all back in. Now there were seven people in the meeting. Everybody was asked to give three ideas. Ideally, how many unique ideas should I have collected? Mike, this is the math part of tonight. Three.

Mike Maddock:

Everybody should be completely aligned, yeah.

Brent Tadsen:

Absolutely. And the actual number of unique answers we got from seven people writing down the top three things was 22, because one guy couldn't decide on three and four, so he put them both down.

Mike Maddock:

Wait, that math doesn't work. Uh yeah. So right at the end there. Do you do you um I I'm curious about I this and this question, just in uh in case you want to know how my crazy mind works, was you had the engineer yelling at the foreman and the foreman yelling, and and I can I'm imagining that room. I'm wondering how being a black belt and Six Sigma has made your life better or worse personally. Like how does how does being an expert at that kind of system or process engineering serve you or not serve you in your personal life?

Brent Tadsen:

So personal life or work life? Personal.

Mike Maddock:

I mean personal life you don't yeah, go ahead. You go ahead.

Brent Tadsen:

No, you go ahead. No, please.

John Tobin:

Or I this is this is just so annoying, I can't believe it. And are you constantly frustrated? I think is probably the the maybe the question.

Mike Maddock:

Or are the people like you know, um sometimes I have to put my battle axe, you know, leave it at work, because that expertise doesn't serve me. I it's a sincere question. I'm wondering if if you've if it's made your life better or worse personally, and how all right, so I will say this I absolutely love everything about continuous improvement.

Brent Tadsen:

It it resonates with me. It it makes my work not work. Like I I go to work every day and I'm like, this is awesome. Like I love it. I love helping people solve problems. Now, when I go home, I I got advice from um a guy at GE who was uh basically one of our lean leaders, and he said, Brent, you never use any of this stuff at home. And I've I've followed that rule, and uh I'm I I'm able to disconnect.

Mike Maddock:

Wow, that's that sounds like good advice. I don't um what about so you you just leave it at work?

Brent Tadsen:

Uh I I do not walk around the house saying, hey, when we're loading the dishwasher, I'm gonna recommend that we we you know load the plates like this. I I just go in and like shuffle them up myself after the kids put stuff away. That's that's all right. I'll I'll live with it. We all do that. It's it's minor. Well, Mike, you you remember?

Mike Maddock:

I've I've been there, it's it's painful. Go ahead, Jack.

John Tobin:

So, Brent, my Mike and I both attended this same leadership training, and it's called Stegan, and there's a guy, Rand Stegan, that we both know. And uh there's this concept around mindset and understanding your mindset and being trapped in what's called the drama triangle. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but um one of the things as you learn about the drama triangle and how to get out of it and get to an empowered state, um one of the things they say very similarly is like, look, you're learning all this stuff and you're experiencing it, and it's okay to share it like with your teams, but be careful what you do with it, like outside of it, and like calling your wife, you know, quit being the victim, or stop persecuting me, and like which is the part of the drama triangle. But like it, I I don't know about you, Mike, but I couldn't help myself, and it got to the point.

Mike Maddock:

I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for you, Jen.

John Tobin:

Well, it got to the point where anytime any of this like language would come up by me or by people we work with, Ellen would like inevitably be have a glass of wine in her hand. She's like, drink, just drinking game around the drama triangle, because we just talked about it so much and it seeped so much into our daily life that you couldn't even help it. And uh, so I think it's a good question, Mike, in in terms of continuous improvement and just how that maybe seeps into your life, but perhaps you demonstrate it in a different way, not you using language, but using action. And if people happen to follow you, then great.

Mike Maddock:

Yeah, I think sometimes the the thing that makes us um really capable at work doesn't serve us at home. And I I I was interested in it. So I have some rapid fire questions for you, Brent, if you'd like.

John Tobin:

Yeah, I think it's too early to do a rapid fire, Mike. I want to get there. I have one other question, just getting to the the seat at the table piece. Go, yeah, and I and and and I'm curious. I mean, I well, in terms of making decisions, because that that's one of the things that we try to get uh from the different leaders that we're talking to. Was there a big decision that you had to make and and what was the way that you approached that decision? How did you come to that? Who did you surround yourself by or ask, or what did you get within yourself that got you to the right answer? I don't know if you have a key thing, or maybe even a key thing you worked with your client could have been again, maybe what how did you get to that trigger point to start uh advantage, but uh or adaptive, but um maybe can you share maybe one quarter sort of big decision that you made?

Brent Tadsen:

Yeah, so I I think I already stole your thunder on that one, John, because I I'd say the the big decision was making the jump to to start adaptive when my wife wasn't working outside the home, the kid was six months old, and I said, you know what, we're doing it, we've waited long enough. Um, but I I'll say this I I I I'm a pretty careful decision maker. And the the funny thing is I had written the business plan for adaptive 10 years earlier when I was in the military. And I I there was always a reason not to start. And after 10 years of not starting, finally everything aligned, and I I look back and I I I think if if I was young, Brent, and I had jumped earlier, I I'm pretty sure I would have failed. So why is it the the I I I didn't know what I didn't know and the the additional business experience, um working with people, seeing different industries, doing additional projects, you know, get it get doing my MBA. Like if I had tried to do this shortly after the military, I I just didn't have the skill set. So it it it ended up working out, but I I do remember being frustrated, like, gosh, what am I gonna make this happen? What am I gonna make this happen? And now I look back, I'm like, geez, I'm really glad I didn't make it happen sooner.

Mike Maddock:

And the relationships, I mean, what makes a company go is sales. You can you can solve a lot of problems if you have sales. And so having someone that trusted you and said, Well, I'll just buy that time from you. I mean, imagine if you didn't. Imagine if you were like, I can't make the mortgage payment, I I know how many put it just creates so much stress so I think having the having not only the wisdom but the social capital in your pocket that you could spend after you started your company.

Brent Tadsen:

So it's it's it's interesting that you bring that up Mike um because I I I I work with with some younger folks some MBA students and and provide advice. And one of the pieces of advice that I always give is no matter what job you're in, do the absolutely best work that you can. And there's there's a lot of folks especially the the the newer folks entering the workforce well this isn't my dream job this isn't exactly what I want to do. I'm like stop do your best because your reputation will follow you and here here's here's the interesting fact Mike I just maybe six months ago look back at our revenue history and 95% of the work that we have done is from referrals and 90% of those referrals started with somebody that I worked with a GE.

Mike Maddock:

Yeah it goes I mean yeah I what I say to people is um related um when people are later in life and they're like oh my gosh I lost my job what if I fail what if I fail what I remind them that no one can take the knowledge the connections the wisdom that they've earned like they're not 22 anymore. So that that little kid inside you that's saying what if I fail that was you know 30 years ago you have all of this equity that you can spend in terms of all the good work you've done all the great relationships I think people um get trapped in this feeling that they have as a young person that failure is you you can't you can't overcome it um and and I I think it's a it's a false premise.

John Tobin:

I think I had that I look yeah I definitely had that Mike I definitely hold me held me back of failing and not not succeeding and like not even making a move like even I was at I stayed at the Board of Trade Claring Corporation in what was like the movie office space where you know I was in a cubicle coating cobalt stapler literally literally producing something called like the RPS reports swear to God. And you can't make this stuff up and I and I wouldn't leave there until your sister Ellen my wife just kept saying John you are miserable what are you doing go move go and I couldn't get out of my own way to do it and I I finally did but I I do think that a lot of that fear a little bit or worry that you're gonna fail holds you back a bit.

Mike Maddock:

Listen John she grew up watching me fail continuously and saw that I survived it. So it was great that she's like he couldn't even get into Notre Dame are you kidding me?

John Tobin:

Okay last question before the before the quick quick fire. So if I looked at the LinkedIn adaptive site it says you you have two to ten employees you know so that's how they categorize you. So still small business and with it all basically most of it being referral based low sgna you guys run lean do you like that do you like running and and it seems like you like doing the practitioner piece of it too um and so just curious like do you do you do you look at that and be like yeah this is this is it this is this is the business I want and or do you think of you know what maybe we should double or maybe we should get bigger or maybe we should go in a different direction. Now that would take you to different places but I'm I'm curious if you and your partners or or teammates maybe ever discussed that in terms of expanding or do you kind of like it uh lean and and and uh structured the way you have it yeah I I get this question a lot I I get it from the guy that works across the hallway from me you know he's like wow you know I hear what you're doing and you get why aren't you guys growing you could be like a billion dollar company and and I I said you know I when we started doing this I did it as a conduit to do what I love and I I I I'll bring people on board that want to do it that are passionate about it but the goal is not to be the next slalom consulting more power to you John like you went out you made it happen that is awesome but for for me the goal is to is to do what I love doing and we I I I I don't need to to make it bigger than it is.

Brent Tadsen:

So to answer your question you know what we might go up or down a person or two here or there um as far as as far as like retooling as far as going in a different direction we we've spent a lot of time in the last uh eight months working on artificial intelligence and how we can help organizations with that um so I think that's that's kind of the next exciting frontier for us but I I I don't see us getting getting huge yeah no it makes sense and I think having that um conviction and and purpose that that I'm gonna do what I love to do is is is really huge and uh more power to you that you you're you're riding that conviction I think it's awesome and I will just say there's a boatload of opportunity within the continuous improvement space with AI how people are thinking about AI leveraging AI there's a massive massive opportunity there so um that's that's great that you're jumping on that honestly um so Mike I'll hand it back to you to do your rapid fire magic. Okay Bran a couple rapid fire questions for you don't think too hard uh bring it it's all right I'm gonna here it comes um morning routine structured or chaos depends on if the kids are at the house if they're not it's structured okay how old are your kids if real quick son is a freshman in college daughter is a freshman in high school it's gotten a lot better since the boy went to college because he was the kid who at 855 I'm still shaking in his bed and he's supposed to be at school which is 20 minutes away at 815 but that puts some context to the structure or not so yeah that's good. Uh book book you wish you had read earlier in life ooh um since I'm not overthinking it uh Jeffrey Liker wrote a book The Toyota Way and I think he did a really good job describing lean as a system versus the earlier books that were all about the tools and I wish I would have read that book sooner because I I think I would have come up to speed a lot faster.

John Tobin:

Nice.

Brent Tadsen:

Did you like the army would you go back would you tell your young self to go go do the army thing I would the uh the the the things I I mean it's the only job where you're 22 years old and you show up and they say all right you're responsible for these 28 people okay if it's not the army what's the second best branch of the military oh army's not first the chair force is first because those guys are sitting around in the air conditioning while we're out there laying in the mud. So if I had it to do over on I I definitely would have would have looked at the chair force.

Mike Maddock:

One of my favorite things is how different service uh branches like just bust on each other.

Brent Tadsen:

Um what is the most underrated leadership skill listening excuse me listening I knew I had a lineup for you I knew your favorite tech tool right now did you hear that Brad Favorite tech tool right tool I'm gonna go with uh yeah I'm gonna go with with co pilot

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John Tobin

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